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Author Topic: Evil By Any Other Name Is Still Evil  (Read 4533 times)
stonelifter
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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2012, 03:33:15 PM »

Left or right wing its just not worth walking around mad over all the time. When you get offended just turn the channel and go back when you calm down. Too many people are walking around mad about this stuff all the time. Both sides will not listen to the other so don't waste your breath. My views are very conservative but my 2 best friends are liberals. We just avoid the subjects that we don't agree on.
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« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2012, 04:01:48 PM »

Well said Willis.
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« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2012, 08:19:46 PM »

I'm not a "left-wing Christian"; I lean right. I didn't vote for Obama, and I mentioned that I quit listening to Rush years ago.  I didn't like his racist and sexist jokes.

I took the time to listen to a good bit of the program in question.  It didn't just "sound like" a personal attack. It was vile.  If someone on the right OR left attacks a person solely on the basis of race or sex, I have no problem saying something about it to the people who financially support the person. 

I could simply keep quiet, look the other way, and hope he eventually loses his audience (although the ditto-heads are pretty entrenched in worshipping the guy), or I could join with the voices saying this is not acceptable.  This is wrong. I chose to speak.

And this is not only something that happens to the poor right-wing speakers.  Ask Al Sharpton or Keith Olbermann or Bill Maher or Barney Frank or Nancy Pelosi.  Public figures are accountable for what they say.  It's the messy part of a free republic, but it's not something we should shy away from.
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« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2012, 01:03:19 PM »

We women seem to making our point.

AOL DROPS LIMBAUGH | AOL, the parent company of Huffington Post, became the eighth company to stop advertising on Limbaugh today. “At AOL one of our core values is that we act with integrity. We have monitored the unfolding events and have determined that Mr. Limbaugh’s comments are not in line with our values. As a result we have made the decision to suspend advertising on The Rush Limbaugh Radio show,” the company said in a statement on Facebook.

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« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2012, 02:45:07 PM »

I didnt listen to the program where Rush called her a name but if I were to guess he was probably saying it to her testimony that she can't afford the birth control she needs that costs 3000 year. He probably said something about if she is having that much sex she is a slut or prostitute. Even the liberal on fox news laughed when someone asked why she couldn't drive 2 miles to planned parenthood where they give free birth control and condoms.

This isn't about the truth. Both sides are playing word games and Rush just looks bad in this case. But in the end Rush wins cause he gets free advertising and more listeners and the ads will be back in a couple weeks cause they just pulled on air ads until further notice not actually entire contracts. Rush has hundreds of millions so I am sure a few ads pulled isn't going to do anything.

Dr Laura went through the same thing when people took her out of context. I actually listened to her because people were talking so much about it that I flipped her on to see what's up. I thought it was interesting radio. Rush is never boring and that is what people like although he isn't my cup of tea.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 02:48:09 PM by The G Man » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2012, 02:47:54 PM »

Freedom of speech!  How important is it?

The British crown tried suppression of colonial anti-Crown speech.
We have this right in the bill of rights.

Hurt feelings are the cost of preventing tyranny. All tyrants suppress speech and call it offensive.
I would be more afraid of these feminist censors. They are anti-American and anti-Constitution.

Thor Smiley

Defend the American way on life not hurt feels or ideological censorship.


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« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2012, 02:52:00 PM »

And as far as boycotts go nobody boycotts more than the religious right so in this case the liberals are taking a page from the rights play book.
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« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2012, 03:45:43 PM »

This is an example of why the left is so dangerous. It's no different than a lynching. And just because someone said something they didn't like or it hurt their feelings. No apology can ever be enough for offending someone on the Left. Their feelings were hurt and the offender MUST be punished! If it was in the power of the Left they would wave a magic wand and make Limbaugh and other right wing talk show hosts disappear--the 1st Amendment be damned!

I haven't listened to Limbaugh in quite some time (I happen to work during the day when he is on). I'm not defending his comment because I didn't hear it or the context in which it was said. From the printed quotes, it sounds like he was trying to make a point in a humorous way and it didn't come out quite right and thus sounded like a personal attack. (Of course, those on the Left NEVER make personal attacks!)

But I wonder how many of those who complain the loudest about Limbaugh have ever listened to him over an extended period of time? If they have and found they don't like what he has to say, then turn the damn radio off. This guy talks for three hours every day for perhaps 50 weeks per year with people who want to discredit him listening and analyzing EVERY FRIGGIN' WORD he says for something they can use against him. So is this and his infamous ESPN football comment the best they can come up with in the 20+ years he's been on the radio? He apologized...let it go! (Or are Left-wing Christians exempted from forgiving their enemies?)

I used to listen to the Left Wing tripe on NPR for years while commuting to work and after a while just got tired of it. I just turned to a different station. If enough people do that to Limbaugh his ratings will suffer and he will suffer the same fate as the left-wing version called Air America which had such low ratings it could not get adequate funding. If people keep listening, the advertisers will come back since he has the highest rated radio program by far.

To advertisers, it's all about the ratings. Companies like Carbonite and others that pulled their ads got in a boardroom somewhere and made a BUSINESS decision as to whether this controversy would hurt them more than the huge Limbaugh audience would help them. If you believe otherwise, you live in fantasy land. There is probably a long waiting list to advertise on the Limbaugh Show and I doubt this will seriously change that.

 
+100000000!!! cool
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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2012, 05:38:34 PM »

This is what she said:

From:  http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/what-did-sandra-fluke-really-say/408191
March 3, 2012 3:59pm 201 Comments
What did Sandra Fluke really say?
by Charlie Spiering Commentary Staff Writer
Follow on Twitter:

Below is the text of Sandra Fluke's opening statement, who testified before a House Democratic panel in support of the HHS contraception mandate.


    My name is Sandra Fluke, and I’m a third-year student at Georgetown Law School. I’m also a past-president of Georgetown Law Students for Reproductive Justice or LSRJ. And I’d like to acknowledge my fellow LSRJ members and allies and all of the student activists with us and thank them so much for being here today.

    (Applause)

    We, as Georgetown LSRJ, are here today because we’re so grateful that this regulation implements the non-partisan medical advice of the Institute of Medicine.

    I attend a Jesuit law school that does not provide contraceptive coverage in its student health plan. And just as we students have faced financial, emotional, and medical burdens as a result, employees at religiously-affiliated hospitals and institutions and universities across the country have suffered similar burdens.

    We are all grateful for the new regulation that will meet the critical health care needs of so many women.

    Simultaneously, the recently announced adjustment addresses any potential conflict with the religious identity of Catholic or Jesuit institutions.

    When I look around my campus, I see the faces of the women affected by this lack of contraceptive coverage.

    And especially in the last week, I have heard more and more of their stories. On a daily basis, I hear yet from another woman from Georgetown or from another school or who works for a religiously-affiliated employer, and they tell me that they have suffered financially and emotionally and medically because of this lack of coverage.

    And so, I’m here today to share their voices, and I want to thank you for allowing them – not me – to be heard.

    Without insurance coverage, contraception, as you know, can cost a woman over $3,000 during law school. For a lot of students who, like me, are on public interest scholarships, that’s practically an entire summer’s salary. 40% of the female students at Georgetown Law reported to us that they struggle financially as a result of this policy.

    One told us about how embarrassed and just powerless she felt when she was standing at the pharmacy counter and learned for the first time that contraception was not covered on her insurance and she had to turn and walk away because she couldn’t afford that prescription. Women like her have no choice but to go without contraception.

    Just last week, a married female student told me that she had to stop using contraception because she and her husband just couldn’t fit it into their budget anymore. Women employed in low-wage jobs without contraceptive coverage face the same choice.

    And some might respond that contraception is accessible in lots of other ways. Unfortunately, that’s just not true.

    Women’s health clinic provide a vital medical service, but as the Guttmacher Institute has definitely documented, these clinics are unable to meet the crushing demand for these services. Clinics are closing, and women are being forced to go without the medical care they need.

    How can Congress consider the [Rep. Jeff] Fortenberry (R-Neb.), [Sen. Marco] Rubio (R-Fla.) and [Sen. Roy] Blunt (R-Mo.) legislation to allow even more employers and institutions to refuse contraception coverage and then respond that the non-profit clinics should step up to take care of the resulting medical crisis, particularly when so many legislators are attempting to de-fund those very same clinics?

    These denial of contraceptive coverage impact real people.

    In the worst cases, women who need these medications for other medical conditions suffer very dire consequences.

    A friend of mine, for example, has polycystic ovarian syndrome, and she has to take prescription birth control to stop cysts from growing on her ovaries. Her prescription is technically covered by Georgetown’s insurance because it’s not intended to prevent pregnancy.

    Unfortunately, under many religious institutions and insurance plans, it wouldn’t be. There would be no exception for other medical needs. And under Sen. Blunt’s amendment, Sen. Rubio’s bill or Rep. Fortenberry’s bill there’s no requirement that such an exception be made for these medical needs.

    When this exception does exist, these exceptions don’t accomplish their well-intended goals because when you let university administrators or other employers rather than women and their doctors dictate whose medical needs are legitimate and whose are not, women’s health takes a back seat to a bureaucracy focused on policing her body.

    In 65% of the cases at our school, our female students were interrogated by insurance representatives and university medical staff about why they needed prescription and whether they were lying about their symptoms.

    For my friend and 20% of the women in her situation, she never got the insurance company to cover her prescription. Despite verifications of her illness from her doctor, her claim was denied repeatedly on the assumption that she really wanted birth control to prevent pregnancy. She’s gay. So clearly polycystic ovarian syndrome was a much more urgent concern than accidental pregnancy for her.

    After months paying over $100 out-of-pocket, she just couldn’t afford her medication anymore, and she had to stop taking it.

    I learned about all of this when I walked out of a test and got a message from her that in the middle of the night in her final exam period she’d been in the emergency room. She’d been there all night in just terrible, excruciating pain. She wrote to me, ‘It was so painful I’d woke up thinking I’ve been shot.’

    Without her taking the birth control, a massive cyst the size of a tennis ball had grown on her ovary. She had to have surgery to remove her entire ovary as a result.

    On the morning I was originally scheduled to give this testimony, she was sitting in a doctor’s office, trying to cope with the consequences of this medical catastrophe.

    Since last year’s surgery, she’s been experiencing night sweats and weight gain and other symptoms of early menopause as a result of the removal of her ovary. She’s 32-years-old.

    As she put it, ‘If my body indeed does enter early menopause, no fertility specialist in the world will be able to help me have my own children. I will have no choice at giving my mother her desperately desired grandbabies simply because the insurance policy that I paid for, totally unsubsidized by my school, wouldn’t cover my prescription for birth control when I needed it.’

    Now, in addition to potentially facing the health complications that come with having menopause at such an early age – increased risk of cancer, heart disease, osteoporosis – she may never be able to conceive a child.

    Some may say that my friend’s tragic story is rare. It’s not. I wish it were

    One woman told us doctors believe she has endometriosis, but that can’t be proven without surgery. So the insurance has not been willing to cover her medication – the contraception she needs to treat her endometriosis.

    Recently, another woman told me that she also has polycystic ovarian syndrome and she’s struggling to pay for her medication and is terrified to not have access to it.

    Due to the barriers erected by Georgetown’s policy, she hasn’t been reimbursed for her medications since last August.

    I sincerely pray that we don’t have to wait until she loses an ovary or is diagnosed with cancer before her needs and the needs of all of these women are taken seriously.

    Because this is the message that not requiring coverage of contraception sends: A woman’s reproductive health care isn’t a necessity, isn’t a priority.

    One woman told us that she knew birth control wasn’t covered on the insurance and she assumed that that’s how Georgetown’s insurance handle all of women’s reproductive and sexual health care. So when she was raped, she didn’t go to the doctor, even to be examined or tested for sexually transmitted infections, because she thought insurance wasn’t going to cover something like that – something that was related to a woman’s reproductive health.

    As one other student put it: ‘This policy communicates to female students that our school doesn’t understand our needs.’

    These are not feelings that male fellow student experience and they’re not burdens that male students must shoulder.

    In the media lately, some conservative Catholic organizations have been asking what did we expect when we enroll in a Catholic school?

    We can only answer that we expected women to be treated equally, to not have our school create untenable burdens that impede our academic success.

    We expected that our schools would live up to the Jesuit creed of ‘cura personalis‘ – to care for the whole person – by meeting all of our medical needs.

    We expected that when we told our universities of the problem this policy created for us as students, they would help us.

    We expected that when 94% of students oppose the policy the university would respect our choices regarding insurance students pay for – completely unsubsidized by the university.

    We did not expect that women would be told in the national media that we should have gone to school elsewhere.

    And even if that meant going to a less prestigious university, we refuse to pick between a quality education and our health. And we resent that in the 21st century, anyone think it’s acceptable to ask us to make this choice simply because we are women.

    Many of the women whose stories I’ve shared today are Catholic women. So ours is not a war against the church. It is a struggle for the access to the health care we need.

    The President of the Association of Jesuit Colleges has shared that Jesuit colleges and the universities appreciate the modifications to the rule announced recently. Religious concerns are addressed and women get the health care they need. And I sincerely hope that that is something we can all agree upon.

    Thank you very much.

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« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2012, 06:06:53 PM »

So, since many of you men here, who call yourselves Christian, will stick up for a man who makes up lies and slanders a young woman, calls her vile names, suggests that she should make tapes of her sexual moments and share them with all of you, I stick by my view of the sad and disgusting state of Christian men.

You call this political.  You cheer and stick up for a man who attacks this woman and calls it humor?  Humor, really! 

Lets share some of what he said,

    LIMBAUGH: What does it say about the college coed Susan [sic] Fluke, who goes before a congressional committee and essentially says that she must be paid to have sex? What does that make her? It makes her a slut, right? It makes her a prostitute. She wants to be paid to have sex.

    She's having so much sex she can't afford the contraception. She wants you and me and the taxpayers to pay her to have sex. What does that make us? We're the pimps.

    The johns, that's right. We would be the johns -- no! We're not the johns. Well -- yeah, that's right. Pimp's not the right word.

    OK, so, she's not a slut. She's round-heeled. I take it back.


This has NOTHING to do with politics.

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Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well- warmed, and well-fed.
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2012, 07:20:35 PM »

Gman, why on earth would you weigh in with an opinion on this issue when you admit you haven't listened to any of it, you "guess" he said this or that, but you think he "probably" meant something else...??!

When you then say, "This isn't about truth,"  well, at least you're honest about that point!

I can't understand why so many wouldn't honestly look at her speech to her representatives (her right as an American),  and then listen to at least parts of Rush's attack (which went on for nearly 3 days by the way, so I understand cutting that listening session short). Then make an HONEST decision here about right or wrong. Just in this ONE case (all your past grievances aside). 

I guess it's just much easier to speechify about pet beliefs if you don't bother to actually read something or watch the evidence for yourself.

This really wasn't that tough of a case to call.  If you weigh it all and think "no big deal", then I could respect that.  I would disagree, but I would respect that.
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2012, 07:34:36 PM »

So the pill is mostly for non-sex medical reasons?  On the bell shaped curve her arguments are mostly on the extreme far ends. The pill does have other uses, but most women take the pill to have sex and not get pregnant. She did not use that fact because it wouldn't give much sympathy. I don't find that very truthful.

Thor Wink

Originally the pill was supposed to be for preventing pregnancy for married couples and now it’s modern form is to kill an unwanted pregnancy. Wow…evil science!
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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2012, 07:43:29 PM »

Wrong, Thor. The pill doesn't kill embryos.

And, I would have PLENTY of sympathy for any person, male or female, who rationally recognizes that they are not yet ready nor able to care for a child.

I would almost be on board with putting birth control in the water fountains at high schools and colleges.  Smiley
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The G Man
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« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2012, 03:28:02 AM »

She choose to attend a catholic university so why should she or the government force them to do something they consider immoral?

And why is she having sex before marriage anyways? What about abstinence (btw, that is free birth control and available 24/7)? If she isnt Catholic or religious, then why did she choose to go to a Catholic university? She knew their views on birth control before she chose that school so she has no right to complain about their beliefs after the fact.

Should Christian employers be forced to pay for abortions? I am sure many would consider that immoral which is the same thing as the Catholics not wanting to support birth control because they feel that it is immoral.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 03:44:23 AM by The G Man » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2012, 05:36:04 AM »

Wrong, Thor. The pill doesn't kill embryos.

The pill's modern counterpart...the morning after pill does.

Fertilization (the union of female ovum, or egg, and male sperm) occurs in the fallopian tube and that fertilization marks the beginning of a new human life and the beginning of the pregnancy. The morning after pill irritates the lining of the uterus (endometrium) so as to inhibit implantation and the human life dies.
So the morning after pill does kill "embryos", i.e. humam life. This is why it's called the morning after pill...after sex. The Bible/Jesus calls this fornication when it is done out of wedlock. The pagans did this to a fault in ancient times before Christianity and the ancient world was a moral morrass of pain and suffering.

Free luv is not free, it's costing the lives of multiple millions and cheapening human life (which has always been a problem).
Today the sexual "id" has been released again into society and it's path of destruction is great.

This is going nowhere good!

Thor Wink

Again the greater issue here is freedom of speech, no matter how offensive. Our republic stands or falls on this right.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 07:02:24 AM by THOR » Logged

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