Freedom and Grace Forums
November 26, 2014, 08:08:05 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: freedomandgrace.com is alive!
 
   Home   Help Search Members Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Israel and nuclear war  (Read 4165 times)
Lone Arranger
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2678

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t


View Profile
« on: February 23, 2012, 06:46:19 AM »

Here is a great youtube link for a speach at Cambridge by Douglas Murray on Israel and nuclear war.  It's short, only 11-1/2 minutes; but it tells it like it is. 
Logged

...while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously. 1 Peter 2:23
Kings_kid
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9862


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2012, 10:39:02 AM »


Did i miss the link?

is this the one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dBzslDdQ_g

If so, i wish/pray every leader in the U.S., at all levels, sees it or hears the message he gives.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 10:49:09 AM by Kings_kid » Logged
Lone Arranger
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2678

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2012, 10:56:35 AM »

Opps.  Thx KK.  That's the correct link.  I must have had a brain fart.  Tongue
Logged

...while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously. 1 Peter 2:23
Kings_kid
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9862


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2012, 10:33:21 AM »


What amazes most, i think, is how the media, and most americans, seem to underplay iran's clear statements about nuking Israel (and "the great satan", the U.S. (us) would be next in line).  How many times do they have to threaten to "wipe Israel off the map" (and then us) before our leaders say, sorry kid, can't let you play with nukes, and mean it?

Somehow it's just easier to worry about our own comfort and economic woes, and pretend the fanatics won't ever do anything really serious.  Kind of like governments did before Hitler really let loose his "blitzkrieg" war machine.  "They say 'Peace, peace', when there is no peace", comes to mind.  

If we study the religious beliefs of Ahmadinejad closely it is clear that he believes he must help cause great conflict and destruction in the world, in order to bring forth the "messiah", the "mahdi", the so-called "12th imam".  And the theocrats backing him in iran consider it a holy duty to support terrorism in as many nations as they can, for basically the same reason.

I don't think Israel has any real choice but to take out their nuclear capability, since we are afraid to act.  Hope it won't be too late.
Logged
love123
Newbie
*
Posts: 2


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2012, 04:29:28 AM »

Nuclear war is not good. 
Fukushima was like a hell.  Can you imagine some nuclear WAR?! Оh, I think it is like the End of the mankind.
Logged

Hello.
Willis
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6716


Follow the Shepherd


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2012, 09:15:51 AM »

If you watch real news (like the BBC which is on my local station at midnight) instead of American news you will hear a more realistic assessment of the world situation. American news even at the national level is more about entertainment than actually reporting news. When the American media does appear to be reporting something of importance, the nationalistic, war-making machine hums patriotic tunes in the background.

Actually TODAY--March 2nd, 2012--the Iranians are holding their Parliamentary Elections. Because the incumbent radical Islamics in control banned anyone from running in the primaries of opposition political parties, only the "candidates" from the ruling party can win. In response, and with little recourse, a very large majority of the voters are planning to protest by NOT voting.

In totalitarian countries there is usually forced voting to make the results more impressive. So if there is a low turnout, this will be embarrassing to the Iranian leadership and show the world that the people at large do not support the regime.

In 2009, Ahmadinejad was "re-elected" only after what most (even in Iran) consider a rigged election after the victory appeared to go to the opposition party leader Mir-Hossein Mousavi. Mousavi was the last pre-Khomeini Prime Minister and came out of retirement to try and overthrow the radicals in power now. The manner in which his apparent victory was over-turned caused massive riots and protests continuing to this day. Mousavi has been under house arrest since 2010--only his high profile among the population keeps him alive.

I think we underestimate how much the average citizen of Iran would like Iran to be a legitimate member of the non-radical modern world. The country is led by a fairly small minority, though one with an iron grip and unafraid to ruthlessly root out its enemies. So Ahmadinejad will be re-elected today.

Now if Iran is the clear aggressor in any military action, it's likely that Iran's own people will fail to support their own government. Whether they could stop a war or not remains to be seen. Governments have all the power when their citizens are unarmed. (See what's going on in Syria lately to see this principle in action.)

On the other hand, if the US or Israel attacks Iran then all of that built-up frustration against the Iranian government will likely immediately evaporate. Iran is crumbling from the inside and if we are not careful we (or Israel) could inadvertently cause all Iranians to throw aside their political differences once a common foe threatens their way of life. Iran is not like Afghanistan. Most of Iran is a modern country with a well-educated middle class populace. They were once the center of the greatest empire in the world and even Rome was unable to conquer them. They have a proud history and are not an unorganized tribal civilization. So Iran can go either way--radical Islam and war or perhaps throwing out the mullahs and becoming a productive, peace-loving country.

I'm not sure which way they will go, but I don't think the US should provoke them to the point where they have no choice but the radical one.

 
Logged

To understand the workings of American politics, you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil. -- Charles Krauthammer
Kings_kid
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9862


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2012, 12:04:20 PM »


I appreciate your point of view, Willis.  I agree that the majority of Iran's population isn't really backing the mullahs, as far as i can see anyway.  And an attack by Israel on their nuclear facilities will move the people toward fanaticism. 

On the other hand, Israel has a right to defend itself, and if they get clear intelligence info that Iran is about to strike first, they have no option but to try to take out their nuclear capability before they can strike, as they did with Iraq and Syria.

It is hard for us to imagine that one of the strongest military forces in the world could be "taken out" pretty much by just 2 or 3 nuclear missiles, but that seems to be the case.  And Iran's leader has said that even if Israel strikes back with nukes, after being hit first, it will be only a "drop in the bucket" to the vast islamic countries, compared to total destruction for Israel. 

Add that to his war-inducing religious beliefs, and we see someone who believes they would be serving God to destroy the Jews, and wants to try their best, just like several other sick leaders of the past.  The list is long.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 12:07:49 PM by Kings_kid » Logged
Willis
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6716


Follow the Shepherd


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2012, 12:23:19 PM »

Israel "needing" to defend itself just reminds me of the 12 spies who were sent north to check out the Promised Land. Only Caleb and Joshua believed God. The others warned that there were "giants" and great fortified cities in the land and they would all be wiped out. "Let's go back to Egypt where we had security and bread to eat!" The Israelites were condemned to 40 years of wandering in the wilderness.

Even then, once in the land Joshua had to stand up and force his people to  choose:

Joshua 24:14-15 “Now fear the LORD and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD. But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.”

So who are we--and the people of modern Israel--to fear Iran? Do we not know how it is all going to end? Are we going to worship the "gods of the Amorites" and succumb to fear like the 10 spies?

 
Logged

To understand the workings of American politics, you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil. -- Charles Krauthammer
THOR
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1888


Never odd or even


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2012, 04:54:55 PM »

This whole Iran will nuc Israel reminds me of the Tom Cruse movie "Minority report".
In future times people are arrested and imprisoned for crimes they would commit in the future. The government had these clairvoyants who did nothing but monitor the future for crimes. As it turned out they were wrong in the case of Tom Cruse killing someone and the system's flaw was revealed. You can't predict future crime.

We are being propagandized by who knows what entity that Iran is evil and "will" nuc Israel when they develop the bomb, which we are told they are working on, but they deny.
Think about it, our government has lied about most every war they have gotten us into since the Spanish American war. There was 911, anthrax, WMD, Jessica lynch, Iran-Contra, The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, maybe Pear Harbor, The munitions carrying sitting duck Lusitania.  

When you attack a nation who has not made any military actions or preparations beyond words then that is pure active aggression. Here-say and accusation is not fact. Possible future crime is not fact. We are being led around by our collective noses….mooo!

Thor Wink
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 04:56:26 PM by THOR » Logged

~~~Yeshua~~~
זָכוֹר אֶת-יוֹם הַשַּׁבָּת, לְקַדְּשׁוֹ
Kings_kid
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9862


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2012, 10:47:32 AM »


thor:  "When you attack a nation who has not made any military actions or preparations beyond words then that is pure active aggression. Here-say and accusation is not fact. Possible future crime is not fact. We are being led around by our collective noses….mooo!"

K_k:  When Iran, via Ahmadinejad, has stated numerous times that Israel will be "wiped off the map", annihilated, and when that nation has developed their naval and missile capability drastically, and when that nation is led by a cult which teaches that muslims should cause maximum disruption and destruction in order to bring forth the islamic messiah,"12th Immam", and that nation denies the Holocaust, and that nation calls Israel the "little satan" (with the U.S. being the "great satan", of course), and that nation has built its nuclear facilities deep into mountains (with a highly advanced new type of thick concrete barrier around it to make it bombproof), then it seems to me to be "sticking one's head in the sand" to say it is all "harmless rhetoric".

Remember how people didn't want to believe that Hitler was evil, or that Japan would ever attack the U.S., or that 9/11 could ever possibly happen?  It's not just "mooo" to see that we are more vulnerable than ever to "suitcase nukes" supplied by Iran, the country that declares itself to be the leader in the opposition to western civilization, and proves it daily with financial and military support of fanatic militants in multiple parts of the world.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 10:51:25 AM by Kings_kid » Logged
Worc
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3684



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2012, 07:43:38 PM »

everyone is SO correct. Willis hityhe home run.
I repeat Fox NBC ETC are all Sh-p, Feedon Internationalnews you can trust.

BBC is Great. I Watch Press tv  too. That is Iran Never would know it. The take reporting serious not like American Snooze.-RT Which is Russia Today. Most is done HERE. WOOW.

I Pick up Israel News ETC----They in Israel Have Fools that publicaly- Act like the Hate chuch in???Te one that holds signs boycotts Hot dog stands.

What bothers me is us believers think Oh Home--then ther is some bearded ahole tellin te cameras we glad we killed Jesus. Throws a rock themlaughs and says Christian fools you send money we hate you worse the palistines'. Me I can not help it I wanna Place A Beat down-A talking like that. Being in the Holy Land And Spreading HATE??? Gets me angry. Then These fools are a Faction.They have a Political voice-Tv Talk Shows they are on...OK Why did not Someonr rxplain instead of spreadin the same rast picture.  Why did I have to Watch And Wake up real EARLY to see this for myself----MY WORD to ANYONE NOW DO NOT TAKE PAST WORDS on anything. < AS IN NEWS AND CURRENT EVENTS>IF YOU READ THIS U HAVE A PUTER. LEARN TO HACK WATCH HE OTHERS NEWS FOR YOUrSELF. MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND TheN> DO NOT bE MILFeD THE neWS
Logged

A point? I Need to Have a Point.Oh Lordie. Grady The want Lamont to have a Point. I'll Give Him a Point in his olde head if anyone be needing a point.
Worc
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3684



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2012, 07:55:21 PM »

THOR
I would Have guessed you would figure his Propaganda Puzzle out

Who-Same that Propagandas us to sleep.

Same Who has (the) Guy---As you uncammy see in Prez elections.
you say HUH? How? But like Good olde Bob Dole---Marched to Meet BC
All were perplexed as how Bobby won. U get HOW?

Obama--Like BC- Like HRC seem To Inherit----Oh like GHB GWB
GHB NEVER-NEVER Should of Butt.

?? Who do I now work for
 more and More Police officers are now realizing whom they're boss is, Still way to few SADLY/

Sir with ALL respect. Answer this you have your answer.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 08:00:41 PM by Worc » Logged

A point? I Need to Have a Point.Oh Lordie. Grady The want Lamont to have a Point. I'll Give Him a Point in his olde head if anyone be needing a point.
THOR
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1888


Never odd or even


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2012, 08:39:23 AM »

 Worc, Your sentences and syntax make no sense! What's going on?

In reply, Iran has not ventured out of its borders (Iraq attacked Iran back in the 80’s) and grown a military the size of ours and is very weak militarily compared to the west and Israel.  Every country postures and makes threats, it’s called saber rattling….or bluster. It doesn’t mean war.
Iran use to be an American puppet installed in 1953 by the M1 and the CIA, i.e. the Shah of Iran. British oil wealth was threatened and the Iranian government was overthrown.  Even Ben laden was originally a CIA agent; as was Saddum Hussein. Our fingerprints are all over the place in this area of the world.

Remember how we said Saddam was building Weapons of Mass Destruction and that was the reason for going to war against him? He denied it and as it turned out he didn’t have any; but somehow he was going to use them against Israel…remember?!  The thought was promoted that we just could not take any chances and must attack! Lots of people died and our companies got their oil contracts.

How many times are we going to fall for the same line? Our government and the government of Israel (maybe Britain, in the background) are lying to us again. I like Israel and the Jews and America. I don’t like being lied to and treated as a mindless fool or having others lied to and made fools of.
The big boys want their oil back. Remember Kaddaffi? Who got his post war gas and oil contracts; America, Britain, France and Italy?!  The US and buddies are beating the war drums louder and louder. Don’t be fooled…they want the oil. Israel is just the excuse.

Don't just look at the surface!

Thor Wink
Logged

~~~Yeshua~~~
זָכוֹר אֶת-יוֹם הַשַּׁבָּת, לְקַדְּשׁוֹ
Kings_kid
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9862


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2012, 01:13:11 PM »


thor:  "Remember how we said Saddam was building Weapons of Mass Destruction and that was the reason for going to war against him? He denied it and as it turned out he didn’t have any; but somehow he was going to use them against Israel…remember?!  The thought was promoted that we just could not take any chances and must attack! Lots of people died and our companies got their oil contracts."

K_k:  There was a little more to it than that.  Saddam was very sensible about pretending to have nukes and/or stockpiles of chemical weapons.  He convinced each of his generals, and his entire staff, that he had them, but only one special general knew where they were.  

So all the intelligence agencies were fed the same information, that Saddam had the weapons and would gladly use them.  It may have only been a big bluff.  It is also very possible that as soon as it looked like the U.S. might invade, that whatever weapons existed were moved quickly to syria.

Which is not to say that oil wasn't a motivator.  No doubt it was.  And Iran not only produces a lot of oil itself, but has threatened multiple times that they will shut down the Strait of Hormuz, which is the narrow passage that about a third of all shipped oil must pass through to get to other countries (or 1/5th of the oil worldwide).  You can say that is just an empty threat, but they have proven they can do it easily.  And it would mean WW 3, i believe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073769/Iran-threatens-shut-Straits-Hormuz-military-manoeuvre.html

K_k:  Some experts doubt it, but they are understimating the extent of the fanaticism existing in Iran's leadership.

http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2011/12/28/can-iran-close-the-strait-of-hormuz/
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 01:19:19 PM by Kings_kid » Logged
THOR
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1888


Never odd or even


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2012, 05:39:22 AM »

Those are sites that propagandize instead of inform. You have to be told how terrible the enemy is so any action is justified. You have to be frightened by some terribly imagined possible future action, to get you to accept pro-active war (AKA...aggression). This is one of many tricks all aggressors have used from ancient times to present. The US and the world are being brainwashed by a bombardment of fear mongering and paranoia.  (They want Iran's Oil)
What was the easiest way to pick a fight in grade school?  It is by using constant provoking, pushing and shoving, verbal insults and challenges? This is what is going on. They are using Evangelicals and their love of Israel to do their dirty work of justifying preemptive strike.

What if we are no longer the good guys.

A little history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat


Thor Wink
Logged

~~~Yeshua~~~
זָכוֹר אֶת-יוֹם הַשַּׁבָּת, לְקַדְּשׁוֹ
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
anything