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Author Topic: Drinking beer is not a sin? I think it is.  (Read 21490 times)
pianoman
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« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2009, 11:40:09 AM »

Quote from: pianoman link=topic=12239. msg218692#msg218692 date=1255108888
Wine gets you drunk since the days of Noah.

(Gen 9:21)  He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent.


Sure, Noah did drink fermented wine, I don't doubt that.  But there were two kinds of wine in the Bible, fermented and unfermented.  Now, of course wine today is fermented.  I understand that.  I just believe that there was unfermented and fermented wine in the days of the Bible.  Noah was human.  He chose to drink the fermented stuff. 

This is simply not true. Where is the biblical evidence for the unfermented wine? Please tell us.
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« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2009, 11:40:52 AM »

Quote from: pianoman link=topic=12239. msg218700#msg218700 date=1255113346
Quote from: jjffer link=topic=12239. msg218698#msg218698 date=1255113004
Quote from: crowwoman link=topic=12239.  msg218691#msg218691 date=1255108767
Yeah, I believe there was a way Jesus would have drunk fermented wine.   I believe He did drink fermented wine.   Look at the story of turning water into wine.   Saving the best grape juice for last just doesn't make a lot of sense!

C'mon, that's just stupid.   Jesus, the son of God, getting a buzz.   The holy son of God.   Drinking something that has caused all kinds of evil in the world.   It's a matter of common sense.   I just can't imagine a Jesus like that.   Jesus would have drunk unfermented wine.   What you are referring to was fermented wine by other people at other times.   Not at the wedding feast. 



This is complete nonsense, the Bible does not say he got drunk. 

I would suggest you read Proverbs 20:1 How do you explain that?
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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2009, 11:47:32 AM »

Quote from: pianoman link=topic=12239. msg218692#msg218692 date=1255108888
Wine gets you drunk since the days of Noah.

(Gen 9:21)  He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent.


Sure, Noah did drink fermented wine, I don't doubt that.  But there were two kinds of wine in the Bible, fermented and unfermented.  Now, of course wine today is fermented.  I understand that.  I just believe that there was unfermented and fermented wine in the days of the Bible.  Noah was human.  He chose to drink the fermented stuff. 

This is simply not true. Where is the biblical evidence for the unfermented wine? Please tell us.

I don't believe the Bible uses the word unfermented. But there's scripture that implies that wine and strong drink are not good. That the one who drinks that stuff is unwise. If that's so, Jesus wouldn't have gone against that and made fermented wine, it must have been unfermented. It's just a matter of common sense or reading between the lines as we say today. It's not a matter of getting drunk, any drinking of fermented wine would have been wrong, even if just a little bit. No, I don't see Jesus as a social drinker. Not at all. Read Proverbs 20:1
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pianoman
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« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2009, 11:48:31 AM »

Quote from: pianoman link=topic=12239. msg218700#msg218700 date=1255113346
Quote from: jjffer link=topic=12239. msg218698#msg218698 date=1255113004
Quote from: crowwoman link=topic=12239.  msg218691#msg218691 date=1255108767
Yeah, I believe there was a way Jesus would have drunk fermented wine.   I believe He did drink fermented wine.   Look at the story of turning water into wine.   Saving the best grape juice for last just doesn't make a lot of sense!

C'mon, that's just stupid.   Jesus, the son of God, getting a buzz.   The holy son of God.   Drinking something that has caused all kinds of evil in the world.   It's a matter of common sense.   I just can't imagine a Jesus like that.   Jesus would have drunk unfermented wine.   What you are referring to was fermented wine by other people at other times.   Not at the wedding feast. 



This is complete nonsense, the Bible does not say he got drunk. 

I would suggest you read Proverbs 20:1 How do you explain that?

Proverbs 20 says nothing about unfermented wine, it talks about drinking in excess.

Please tell us about how the bible describes unfermented wine. What chapter, what verse.
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osiris041282
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« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2009, 11:50:23 AM »

It says if you are led astray....don't be led astray...

If it is easier to avoid, then so be it.  But Having a drink isn't a sin...

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pianoman
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« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2009, 11:52:11 AM »

Quote from: pianoman link=topic=12239. msg218692#msg218692 date=1255108888
Wine gets you drunk since the days of Noah.

(Gen 9:21)  He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent.


Sure, Noah did drink fermented wine, I don't doubt that.  But there were two kinds of wine in the Bible, fermented and unfermented.  Now, of course wine today is fermented.  I understand that.  I just believe that there was unfermented and fermented wine in the days of the Bible.  Noah was human.  He chose to drink the fermented stuff. 

This is simply not true. Where is the biblical evidence for the unfermented wine? Please tell us.

I don't believe the Bible uses the word unfermented. But there's scripture that implies that wine and strong drink are not good. That the one who drinks that stuff is unwise. If that's so, Jesus wouldn't have gone against that and made fermented wine, it must have been unfermented. It's just a matter of common sense or reading between the lines as we say today. It's not a matter of getting drunk, any drinking of fermented wine would have been wrong, even if just a little bit. No, I don't see Jesus as a social drinker. Not at all. Read Proverbs 20:1

Well I have some good news and some bad news. Jesus was not a social drinker as you understand that term.
He was not a drunkard, but he did drink wine. And theres no sin in that and this is why:

Jesus speaking

(Mat 15:16)  And he said, "Are you also still without understanding?

(Mat 15:17)  Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled?

(Mat 15:18)  But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person.

(Mat 15:19)  For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.

(Mat 15:20)  These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone."
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When Paul says, I want to know him, it means, I want to be with him, but when he says, I want to know the power of his resurrection, it means, I want to be just like him.

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pianoman
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« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2009, 11:53:00 AM »

It says if you are led astray....don't be led astray...

If it is easier to avoid, then so be it.  But Having a drink isn't a sin...



Thank you brother with a pagan name, for a moment i thought you had gone into the dark side lol
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When Paul says, I want to know him, it means, I want to be with him, but when he says, I want to know the power of his resurrection, it means, I want to be just like him.

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jjffer
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« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2009, 11:53:42 AM »

Quote from: pianoman link=topic=12239. msg218692#msg218692 date=1255108888
Wine gets you drunk since the days of Noah.

(Gen 9:21)  He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent.


Sure, Noah did drink fermented wine, I don't doubt that.  But there were two kinds of wine in the Bible, fermented and unfermented.  Now, of course wine today is fermented.  I understand that.  I just believe that there was unfermented and fermented wine in the days of the Bible.  Noah was human.  He chose to drink the fermented stuff. 

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Proverbs 20:1
[/b][/color]

This is simply not true. Where is the biblical evidence for the unfermented wine? Please tell us.

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Proverbs 20:1
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pianoman
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« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2009, 12:01:27 PM »

Quote from: pianoman link=topic=12239. msg218692#msg218692 date=1255108888
Wine gets you drunk since the days of Noah.

(Gen 9:21)  He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent.


Sure, Noah did drink fermented wine, I don't doubt that.  But there were two kinds of wine in the Bible, fermented and unfermented.  Now, of course wine today is fermented.  I understand that.  I just believe that there was unfermented and fermented wine in the days of the Bible.  Noah was human.  He chose to drink the fermented stuff. 

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Proverbs 20:1
[/b][/color]

This is simply not true. Where is the biblical evidence for the unfermented wine? Please tell us.

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Proverbs 20:1


Jesus drank wine, what do you have to say about that?

Is your Jesus a sinner? If he drank wine as the Bible says he did, then this verse does not have the doctrinal weight you are giving it. Or we are all wasting our time.
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pianoman
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« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2009, 12:03:26 PM »

I am still waiting for the chapter and verse where the Bible mentions "unfermented wine"

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When Paul says, I want to know him, it means, I want to be with him, but when he says, I want to know the power of his resurrection, it means, I want to be just like him.

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crowwoman
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« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2009, 12:10:29 PM »

Matthew 11:19
The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Don't think that's talking about unfermented wine there.

Also, Ephesians 5 18And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

If I'm not mistaken, the word for wine here is the word for wine in Matthew ... We're not be drunk  ... and it uses the word excess here ... If a Christian chooses to be a teetotaler there are good reasons to do so. If you want to justify that the Bible says it's a sin to drink, I just don't see it. Nazarites took a vow not to drink or even touch grapes. That wasn't required of the normal Israelite. In fact, the Passover feast incorporates 4 cups of wine. The Haggadah used today probably varies little from the one used in Jesus time. I definitely think it was fermented.
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pianoman
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« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2009, 12:14:29 PM »

Matthew 11:19
The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Don't think that's talking about unfermented wine there.

Also, Ephesians 5 18And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

If I'm not mistaken, the word for wine here is the word for wine in Matthew ... We're not be drunk  ... and it uses the word excess here ... If a Christian chooses to be a teetotaler there are good reasons to do so. If you want to justify that the Bible says it's a sin to drink, I just don't see it. Nazarites took a vow not to drink or even touch grapes. That wasn't required of the normal Israelite. In fact, the Passover feast incorporates 4 cups of wine. The Haggadah used today probably varies little from the one used in Jesus time. I definitely think it was fermented.

Timothy must have been a heathen too with that rationale

(1Ti 5:23)  (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)
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When Paul says, I want to know him, it means, I want to be with him, but when he says, I want to know the power of his resurrection, it means, I want to be just like him.

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pianoman
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« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2009, 12:18:17 PM »

And Paul told him!!!!
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When Paul says, I want to know him, it means, I want to be with him, but when he says, I want to know the power of his resurrection, it means, I want to be just like him.

Tim Keller
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« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2009, 12:21:33 PM »

On today's broadcast, Steve's pastor said that drinking beer is not a sin and yet Steve and his pastor were not advocating drinking beer.  Well, if it's not a sin, than what's the problem? I don't drink beer or any kind of booze because I do view it as sin.  If I didn't view it as sin, I would drink beer and any kind of booze without any remorse. 

I drink O'Doul's beer (1/2 of 1 percent alcohol which is less than what is in vanilla pudding)...is that OK?   Huh?


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pianoman
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« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2009, 12:58:53 PM »

Where did he go?...
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When Paul says, I want to know him, it means, I want to be with him, but when he says, I want to know the power of his resurrection, it means, I want to be just like him.

Tim Keller
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