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 on: July 18, 2015, 02:47:16 PM 
Started by savedbygrace - Last post by savedbygrace
Jer 31:18-19

18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God.

19 Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

Repentance is the fruit of being turned by Christ, It is God Our Saviour through the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ, that men are given repentance Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Note: Repentance of this nature must be given, we have it not in us by nature !

Now in fact, its an accomplishment of His death for us, and heres why !

The prophets stated "Surely after that I was turned, I repented"

In other words, his act of repenting was effected by him being first acted upon ! He was first turned, and AFTER that he repented !

The word turned in Jer 31:19 is shub: to turn back, return, so in this case it means to be returned or to be turned back, it means to bring back, it means to convert !

The word also corresponds with the NT word returned here in 1 Pet 2:25

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

here its the greek word epistrepho which means, to cause to return, to bring back unto the Love and Obedience of God, and its in the passive voice, which denotes that they are being returned, acted upon, and this is effected by what transpired in Vs 24 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Its the results of the healing that His stripes/death brings, a conversion to God !

And its this being returned that brings forth or causes our repentance, as the Prophet said, AFTER i was turned, I repented !

 on: July 17, 2015, 06:38:52 AM 
Started by savedbygrace - Last post by savedbygrace
All men in the beginning who were created in the Image and Likeness of God, were predestinated to be conformed to the Image of Christ, the Firstborn Son Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Those who were created in God's Image would not be confirmed in it until they sinned in Adam, and would be Born Again from above. See in Adam they merely bared the Image of the earthy man by physical birth, but its in their birth from above that they begin to experimentally begin to bear the Image of God, the Heavenly Man and Mediator the Lord Jesus Christ.

For the natural man could never bear the Image of God in a earthy man made out of dust, but only in that Man who was the Man from Heaven 1 Cor 15:47-49

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Notice Gen 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Now Look at Col 3:10

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge [SIZE="5"]after the image of him that created him[/SIZE]:

So you see, Its the New Man that finds confirmation into the Image of God of Him that Created Him !

Paul says Two verses Later in Col 3:12

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Yes it was the Elect of God who were Created in the Image of God, but its only when they are born again according to God's Redemptive Purpose in Christ, do they begin to truly bear the Image of God as the Spirit changes them into that Image 2 Cor 3:18

18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The Image of God was not in Adam, but in Adams Surety, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God ! When God made Man in His Image it was in view of the Spirits work in them according to 2 Cor 3:18 !852

 on: July 17, 2015, 05:11:42 AM 
Started by savedbygrace - Last post by savedbygrace
When God is causing the Gospel to be His Power unto Salvation, to them believing, its when the Born again Elect Vessel of Mercy Hears it, and of course head of Christ, they obey Him, Obey His Gospel, submit themselves to Him, as was foretold in the Psalms both in Ps 18:44

44 As soon as they hear of me, they shall obey me: the strangers shall submit themselves unto me.

They wont be like those who dont obey the Gospel Like these Rom 10:16

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Or those who dont submit to its Righteousness Rom 10:3

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

But in the Fay of God's Gospel Power and strength they wiil be made willing Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

They shall be made willing servants, Like Saul, all the sudden became a willing servant by the Power of God Acts 9:3-6

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Saul whom we now know as Paul was made willing in the Day of Christ's Power, and that Light that shined around about him in Vs 3, also symbolizes the Light of the Gospel 2 Cor 4:5-6

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

God gives the Light of the Gospel by Sovereignly shining it in our Heart by the Power of the Holy Spirit, this was also promised to the Gentiles Isa 42:6

I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Lk 2:32

A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Acts 13:46-48

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God/Gospel should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

They Glorified the Word of the Lord, by after hearing it, they submit themselves unto it as the Word of God foretold Ps 18:44

44 As soon as they hear of me, they shall obey me: the strangers shall submit themselves unto me.

The Gentiles were strangers Eph 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

 on: July 17, 2015, 04:32:19 AM 
Started by savedbygrace - Last post by Jeffrey
The Pastor of the church that I hang with, (but don't technically belong to), is a dyed in the wool Calvinist. His mentor who pastored for years and is now primarily doing things involving missions and training, is not a Calvinist. Not an Arminian and not a Calvinist. He would say he does believe in corporate election, people being selected for service, or some mission, or purpose, but not to salvation. Not individual election.
Anyway, I listened to a good podcast of these two debating in a very friendly way their views on these things. They are good friends. The older mentor is often invited to speak at the church and teach in various venues there.
He suggested a book called The New Chosen People by a fellow named Klein. I ordered it via Amazon and am going to check it out.

 on: July 16, 2015, 10:19:45 PM 
Started by savedbygrace - Last post by Kings_kid
sbg: "So understand something, if we say Christ died for someone, died for their sins, and then we turn around and say that the one He died to save, dies in their sins and in unbelief Jn 8:24, we are saying, whether we realize it or not, that Christ failed to save them from their sins ! We are calling His whole Saving Campaign to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21, a failure, and that's something we will have to answer for in the Day of Judgment unless of course we are granted repentance to the acknowledgement of the Truth before that Day !"

Not quite correct, as i see it.  If a person persists in rejecting the impulse of the Spirit toward repentance and belief/trust in Christ as Lord and Savior, it is not Jesus Who has failed.  For He provided perfect salvation for all who will come to choose to receive it.  He does not force salvation on anyone, though He could well do so if He so chose.

But perfect love does not compel anyone to love them against their will.  So Jesus always succeeds, both in saving completely those who can let go of their suppression of His love for them, and in not compelling salvation upon those who cling to their repression of His convicting love for them until their death.    

Thus, He is the true Savior of all mankind, but only those who receive Him will be saved in the  End, which is not His "failure", rather it is His love for the lost which is thereby revealed.  Perfect love never fails, including allowing those who reject Him persistently to choose freely their own destruction.

1 Tim 4:10
"...We trust in the living God, Who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe."

Romans 1:17-19
"For in it (the Gospel) the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”  For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the Truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them."

 on: July 16, 2015, 10:03:06 PM 
Started by B.Player - Last post by Kings_kid

Interesting.  But i seem to associate being "'sealed" with Believers, especially by the Holy Spirit.  What Scripture says satan will be "sealed"?

Oh, i see the problem.  It is the NIV which has "sealed" in Revelation 20:22, while the NKJV has "set a seal on him", referring to satan being locked up in the bottomless pit.

OK, that's a good thing to remember.

 on: July 16, 2015, 10:53:41 AM 
Started by B.Player - Last post by B.Player
Crush, seized, bound, threw, shut, sealed.  These are all physical activities and the devil is on the receiving end of all of them.  So the devil will be defeated not by being outwitted, but by physical force.

 on: July 16, 2015, 08:43:28 AM 
Started by savedbygrace - Last post by beacon2
That has been one of my issues with Calvinism or whatever brand SBG is locked in on.
Many times we see that the calls for repentance, the offers of salvation through Christ are general calls. "Whomsoever", "all".
We are to understand that we are to be ready to tell anyone of the reason for the hope that we have.

But if you follow the drift of SBG and those of that persuasion, it would be that we are being told to make an offer on God's behalf, with words that indicate an invitation, a call, but it's not really available for some of them because they are not of the elect. Obviously if this whole Calvinism, Election, pre-destination thing is true, God knows what person is predestined to believe. But it seems to reduce Him to something like the car dealers that put ads in the paper for a really good deal, and when you get there you find out that only was for a specific car, and in fine print in the bottom of that ad they put the VIN number so legally it was only one person could get that deal. In that case God is asking His people to make an offer that, following how it is written in scripture, is open to the person we are speaking to, and yet in many cases it is by that theology not. We are in effect lying to some people. Its as good as a lie to tell someone that if they believe on Christ they will be saved if it is 100% impossible for them to do so, whether we know that is their specific personal case or not.

It seems like pretty much everything is a huge waste of time if everything was pre-destined to occur just as it has from before time.


I've been trying to post several times, but with no luck.  Keep getting the same error messages as before.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know Jeffrey that I've had the same thoughts you expressed above.  Especially the fact that if Christ did not die for all men (which is the lie that Calvinists and sbg believe), then when we proclaim the gospel we are telling a lie to those that, supposedly,  Christ did not die for.  And Christ would not send us to proclaim a lie.

As for election, I share some of the same thoughts you do, but it is there in the scriptures so I guess we'll finally get a grasp on that when we see the Lord.


 on: July 15, 2015, 03:50:28 AM 
Started by savedbygrace - Last post by savedbygrace
Rom 1:16

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

When is the Gospel being the Power of God ? Its only when those hearing it are being caused to believe it. Its not the power of God when its merely being preached, but when its being accompanied by the Holy Spirit, He performing His powerful Sanctifying Work with it, 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through/in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Belief of the Truth is the result of the Spirits Sanctification, He must make us first experimentally Holy unto the belief of the Truth,

So when the Gospel is a companion with the Spirit, it comes bringing with it Salvation, Conversion, producing faith, belief and conviction, assurance of the Truth, as here stated by Paul 1 Thess 1:4-5

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

That word Power here dunamis is the same word Paul uses in Rom 1:16

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

This Gospel as it is being the Power of God in the Hands of the Spirit, it converts us out of the Prison of Unbelief, delivering us unto the belief of the Truth !

Thats when the Gospel is the Power of God, when it makes believers out of us, If one hears the Gospel, and continues in unbelief, then to them, it was not being the Power of God, for God's Power cannot be overcome by mans will, that would be Blasphemous to even consider ! To them therefore, it was designed by God to be a message of death 2 Cor 2:14-16

14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge[The Gospel of God] by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

 on: July 14, 2015, 11:06:27 AM 
Started by savedbygrace - Last post by savedbygrace
You see when people teach that Faith and Repentance are the requirements of men to get saved, that deprives Christ of the Full Glory of being the Saviour of sinners, He doesnt get full credit for doing all what was required to save them He Lived and died for, He left something undone, incomplete to secure their Salvation, hence they were not quite complete in Him.

If by His Death/Offering, those He died for had been Perfected forever Heb 10:10-14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Yes He has perfected forever them that are Sanctified, which are them He died for in Vs 10 !

Since this is True, How can any He died for die in their sins and in unbelief ? For that would mean, that even after Christ by His Death, Both Sanctified and Perfected forever them  He was offered for, still end up in hell for their sins in unbelief ! Jn 8:24 This should be an horrible thought to any claiming to believe in Christ and His Saving Death !

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