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 11 
 on: October 20, 2014, 12:32:06 PM 
Started by Jeffrey - Last post by Jeffrey
Go for it!

 12 
 on: October 20, 2014, 11:25:22 AM 
Started by savedbygrace - Last post by savedbygrace
If God punishes any for sin, exercises His Vindictive wrath upon, any for whom Christ died, then God is charged with injustice and acting unjustly, for exercising Divine Wrath upon those that Christ, by His death for them, delivered them from God's Wrath 1 Thess 1:10

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

He would be Unjust because He would be exercising Divine Vengeance upon persons to whom He could not justly lay any charge against Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

If Christ died for us, that Justified Us, and such, even God cannot lay any charge against Justly, because He layed the charges of theirs upon Christ who died because of them !

Now if God cannot and does not Lay any charges against them, they are to be considered before Him faultless, Blameless and innocent of any fault against His Holy Law.

Again the reason for this is because all the sins and faults and transgressions of theirs, He hath already by imputation, transferred and layed the guilt of and penalty of Upon Christ, and so He died, and in Him satisfied all His Law and Justice against their sins, and so they stand before Him as Innocent of any sins, as though they never sinned, and so it would be unjust of God to punish them for anything, it would be an abomination of His Righteous Government , in fact He would be guilty of doing the very thing He condemns and so would be Hypocritical Prov 17:15

He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.1418

 13 
 on: October 20, 2014, 11:19:58 AM 
Started by CPB - Last post by Jeffrey
I am currrently reading "The Interesting Narrative of the Life of Olaudah Equiano". Its the story of an African captured into slavery in about 1755 who had many adventures, had a great intelligence, became educated and ultimately an important part of the effort to end slavery in the British Empire. There were several editions, the last and most complete was 1794, the edition I am reading.
Good insight, and of course an eyeopener into a world we can mostly only fathom at.
If you have seen the movie "Amazing Grace" on the effort by William Wilberforce to end the slave trade, this is the African who is in the movie, showing Wiberforce a slave ship for instance, and signing his narrative in another scene, and other scenes.

 14 
 on: October 20, 2014, 07:53:21 AM 
Started by BFDD - Last post by Jeffrey
Perhaps this is the post?

"I remember a piece of writing by Darin Hufford where he asserted that the bible is unnecessary because as he says the vast majority of the masses had none until after the printing press made them available, and they did just fine.
That's either a lie or just a statement made in ignorance, or a statement made knowingly in contradiction of the facts. People who were ignorant of what the scriptures said, who did not have some significant access were held in ignorance. They could be made victims of charlatans, false teachers, stuck in works, etc.
Of course that can happen when people who do have the scriptures do not avail themselves of what they say regarding grace and do not take ownership or their own individual accountability to guard that.

But I think the truth clearly is that it would be worse to make little to no reference to the bible. To simply say we will follow Christ, is great. What that means requires something beyond what would in reality be as influenced by our feelings and our value system as the leading of the Holy Spirit."

I stand by that statement until convinced otherwise. I get the concept. Its sounds great to say "we can follow Christ". The Holy Spirit will just lead us, be active in us and we will become more Christ like, and see things from His perspective.
On the one hand I think that it IS possible for the Holy Spirit to do that. But I think He chooses to use the scriptures as a very important means. I think people are very capable, even those who are His, of coming up with ideas that really are not of God, based on what they feel is right and is not something given to them by God through the Holy Spirit. I don't believe that is a completely indefensible idea or "out there" whacky. Anyone who cares to disagree will not get too much heat from me. Its okay.

 15 
 on: October 20, 2014, 07:23:58 AM 
Started by BFDD - Last post by Jeffrey

You are asking me questions as if I have stated things I haven't. So I don't how I can possibly answer them.

Not to argue for the sake of arguing, but, Really??

You said something very similar in this thread about 5 or 6 posts ago about how our emotions and feelings corrupt our doctrine, therefore we can't trust ourselves. That has always been one of your fallback positions. Just as it has always been your response to say that, maybe not in so many words, that you have never experienced anything like what some of us have, and therefore it's not that big of an issue. It is, I believe, a big part of the reason that some, myself included, have been angry with you at times. To say that since it's never happened in your life, or church, and therefore it is not an issue of any real widespread significance has always come across as very dismissive.

What I find dismissive is to have posts written to me as if I have written things I haven't. When did I write posts that stated "its never happened in my life, or  church"? You better be able to show me some good examples. You won't because, ITS NOT TRUE. Basically, what I sense is that if I don't join the club who can't write about hardly anything withouout carping on the church I must be some kind of blind rah-rah modern church guy. Its simply not true that that must be the case, but apparently some of us  can't see that simple fact. I have may have had a surprising number of hurtful experiences. I may have been witness to, perhaps even a victim of all kinds of wrong actions and words. Its not may nature to go on and on about stuff like that. Don't assume things based on how  you react to such.

And what I said about feelings is that if a person ONLY relies on teir abililty to "follow Christ" and there is no regard or knowledge of scriptures or no reliance on what they say of Him, they are very likely to not follow Him, at least in some things, but more so follow their own wisdom or idea of what is what. At least to a significant degree
I stand by that though. You can quote me on it!

Ok Jeff...

you are right, you never, never, ever, ever said any such thing. How could I have been so wrong?  rolleyes


I never said any such thing as what? Just quote the post in question. We can have an actual discussion on what I wrote. I am open to seeing how something I wrote was interpreted, and what not.  It doesn't have to be just something you allude to. Qulote it.

Jeff...

discussion with you is difficult because of this very situation. You have pretty much constantly said exactly what I said you did, and then get your feelings hurt, and lash out when you are called on it. Call it a blind spot. I am not going to go back and search posts to find exact quotes, if you are that interested, and your mind is open enough, do it yourself. Personally, I find it hard to believe that so many (numerous) people could all have the same, wrong perception about you and your m.o. where forum discussion is concerned.
My feelings are not hurt in the least.
If  you think good discussions come from simply saying another said something, and you don't feel like finding the post, thats fine, but don't blame the end of the discussion being my doing.
I have to say I  really wouldn't begin to feel I could catalog how "numerous" people feel about another person here. I don't keep a running account in my head. Its not important to me.
We are SO different I guess.

 16 
 on: October 20, 2014, 07:17:36 AM 
Started by BFDD - Last post by MaxxAction

You are asking me questions as if I have stated things I haven't. So I don't how I can possibly answer them.

Not to argue for the sake of arguing, but, Really??

You said something very similar in this thread about 5 or 6 posts ago about how our emotions and feelings corrupt our doctrine, therefore we can't trust ourselves. That has always been one of your fallback positions. Just as it has always been your response to say that, maybe not in so many words, that you have never experienced anything like what some of us have, and therefore it's not that big of an issue. It is, I believe, a big part of the reason that some, myself included, have been angry with you at times. To say that since it's never happened in your life, or church, and therefore it is not an issue of any real widespread significance has always come across as very dismissive.

What I find dismissive is to have posts written to me as if I have written things I haven't. When did I write posts that stated "its never happened in my life, or  church"? You better be able to show me some good examples. You won't because, ITS NOT TRUE. Basically, what I sense is that if I don't join the club who can't write about hardly anything withouout carping on the church I must be some kind of blind rah-rah modern church guy. Its simply not true that that must be the case, but apparently some of us  can't see that simple fact. I have may have had a surprising number of hurtful experiences. I may have been witness to, perhaps even a victim of all kinds of wrong actions and words. Its not may nature to go on and on about stuff like that. Don't assume things based on how  you react to such.

And what I said about feelings is that if a person ONLY relies on teir abililty to "follow Christ" and there is no regard or knowledge of scriptures or no reliance on what they say of Him, they are very likely to not follow Him, at least in some things, but more so follow their own wisdom or idea of what is what. At least to a significant degree
I stand by that though. You can quote me on it!

Ok Jeff...

you are right, you never, never, ever, ever said any such thing. How could I have been so wrong?  rolleyes


I never said any such thing as what? Just quote the post in question. We can have an actual discussion on what I wrote. I am open to seeing how something I wrote was interpreted, and what not.  It doesn't have to be just something you allude to. Qulote it.

Jeff...

discussion with you is difficult because of this very situation. You have pretty much constantly said exactly what I said you did, and then get your feelings hurt, and lash out when you are called on it. Call it a blind spot. I am not going to go back and search posts to find exact quotes, if you are that interested, and your mind is open enough, do it yourself. Personally, I find it hard to believe that so many (numerous) people could all have the same, wrong perception about you and your m.o. where forum discussion is concerned.

 17 
 on: October 20, 2014, 06:58:33 AM 
Started by BFDD - Last post by Jeffrey

You are asking me questions as if I have stated things I haven't. So I don't how I can possibly answer them.

Not to argue for the sake of arguing, but, Really??

You said something very similar in this thread about 5 or 6 posts ago about how our emotions and feelings corrupt our doctrine, therefore we can't trust ourselves. That has always been one of your fallback positions. Just as it has always been your response to say that, maybe not in so many words, that you have never experienced anything like what some of us have, and therefore it's not that big of an issue. It is, I believe, a big part of the reason that some, myself included, have been angry with you at times. To say that since it's never happened in your life, or church, and therefore it is not an issue of any real widespread significance has always come across as very dismissive.

What I find dismissive is to have posts written to me as if I have written things I haven't. When did I write posts that stated "its never happened in my life, or  church"? You better be able to show me some good examples. You won't because, ITS NOT TRUE. Basically, what I sense is that if I don't join the club who can't write about hardly anything withouout carping on the church I must be some kind of blind rah-rah modern church guy. Its simply not true that that must be the case, but apparently some of us  can't see that simple fact. I have may have had a surprising number of hurtful experiences. I may have been witness to, perhaps even a victim of all kinds of wrong actions and words. Its not may nature to go on and on about stuff like that. Don't assume things based on how  you react to such.

And what I said about feelings is that if a person ONLY relies on teir abililty to "follow Christ" and there is no regard or knowledge of scriptures or no reliance on what they say of Him, they are very likely to not follow Him, at least in some things, but more so follow their own wisdom or idea of what is what. At least to a significant degree
I stand by that though. You can quote me on it!

Ok Jeff...

you are right, you never, never, ever, ever said any such thing. How could I have been so wrong?  rolleyes


I never said any such thing as what? Just quote the post in question. We can have an actual discussion on what I wrote. I am open to seeing how something I wrote was interpreted, and what not.  It doesn't have to be just something you allude to. Qulote it.

 18 
 on: October 20, 2014, 06:47:03 AM 
Started by BFDD - Last post by MaxxAction

You are asking me questions as if I have stated things I haven't. So I don't how I can possibly answer them.

Not to argue for the sake of arguing, but, Really??

You said something very similar in this thread about 5 or 6 posts ago about how our emotions and feelings corrupt our doctrine, therefore we can't trust ourselves. That has always been one of your fallback positions. Just as it has always been your response to say that, maybe not in so many words, that you have never experienced anything like what some of us have, and therefore it's not that big of an issue. It is, I believe, a big part of the reason that some, myself included, have been angry with you at times. To say that since it's never happened in your life, or church, and therefore it is not an issue of any real widespread significance has always come across as very dismissive.

What I find dismissive is to have posts written to me as if I have written things I haven't. When did I write posts that stated "its never happened in my life, or  church"? You better be able to show me some good examples. You won't because, ITS NOT TRUE. Basically, what I sense is that if I don't join the club who can't write about hardly anything withouout carping on the church I must be some kind of blind rah-rah modern church guy. Its simply not true that that must be the case, but apparently some of us  can't see that simple fact. I have may have had a surprising number of hurtful experiences. I may have been witness to, perhaps even a victim of all kinds of wrong actions and words. Its not may nature to go on and on about stuff like that. Don't assume things based on how  you react to such.

And what I said about feelings is that if a person ONLY relies on teir abililty to "follow Christ" and there is no regard or knowledge of scriptures or no reliance on what they say of Him, they are very likely to not follow Him, at least in some things, but more so follow their own wisdom or idea of what is what. At least to a significant degree
I stand by that though. You can quote me on it!

Ok Jeff...

you are right, you never, never, ever, ever said any such thing. How could I have been so wrong?  rolleyes


 19 
 on: October 20, 2014, 05:19:41 AM 
Started by BFDD - Last post by Jeffrey

You are asking me questions as if I have stated things I haven't. So I don't how I can possibly answer them.

Not to argue for the sake of arguing, but, Really??

You said something very similar in this thread about 5 or 6 posts ago about how our emotions and feelings corrupt our doctrine, therefore we can't trust ourselves. That has always been one of your fallback positions. Just as it has always been your response to say that, maybe not in so many words, that you have never experienced anything like what some of us have, and therefore it's not that big of an issue. It is, I believe, a big part of the reason that some, myself included, have been angry with you at times. To say that since it's never happened in your life, or church, and therefore it is not an issue of any real widespread significance has always come across as very dismissive.

What I find dismissive is to have posts written to me as if I have written things I haven't. When did I write posts that stated "its never happened in my life, or  church"? You better be able to show me some good examples. You won't because, ITS NOT TRUE. Basically, what I sense is that if I don't join the club who can't write about hardly anything withouout carping on the church I must be some kind of blind rah-rah modern church guy. Its simply not true that that must be the case, but apparently some of us  can't see that simple fact. I have may have had a surprising number of hurtful experiences. I may have been witness to, perhaps even a victim of all kinds of wrong actions and words. Its not may nature to go on and on about stuff like that. Don't assume things based on how  you react to such.

On a side bar. Yes, I was part of a chruch that I was quite happy with. It wasn't smooth sailing 365 days a year for years on end. We and I had our moments because it did involve humans. Anyway, yes I considered the Pastor a true friend and still do, though he lives in another state now and we don't see each other more than a couple or three times a year. That church closed its doors about 6 or 7 years ago and I know I haven't been able to write any glowing personal church reports since then! So I am over it, and suggest you all do too.

And what I said about feelings is that if a person ONLY relies on teir abililty to "follow Christ" and there is no regard or knowledge of scriptures or no reliance on what they say of Him, they are very likely to not follow Him, at least in some things, but more so follow their own wisdom or idea of what is what. At least to a significant degree
I stand by that though. You can quote me on it!

 20 
 on: October 20, 2014, 04:29:09 AM 
Started by savedbygrace - Last post by savedbygrace
1 Pet 2:5

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

All for whom Christ died, He as a Living Stone Vs 4

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

He makes all for whom He died, and whom He is the Head of, He makes them Living stones, for He gives them [His Body] Life 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam[The Living Stone of 1 Pet 2:4] was made a quickening spirit.

That word quickening means to give life, so He becomes a Life giving Spirit. Now by this they become experimentally meet for building material to build His Church Matt 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Zech 6:12-13

And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:

Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Building a Spiritual House 1 Pet 2:5

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Christ building His Church/Temple also as seen fufills prophecy Zech 6:12-13, now to do this He must make them alive, make them Living stones, this He does by quickening them to Life 1 Cor 15:45.

Now notice, the Believer is coming to Christ 1 Pet 2:4 as in being drawn to Him the Living stone, so their coming to Him are as Living stones 1 Pet 2:4-5

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Their coming to Christ as Lively stones is to be built up into a Spiritual House ! The important point here is that they had to be first made Living stones to come to the Living Stone, for He does not use dead material !

The word for coming in Vs 4 is the greek word proserchomai and means:

I.
to come to, approach

II.
draw near to

III.
to assent to

It also means :

 to attach oneself to Christ, to come to a participation in the benefits procured by him.

To assent means:

to agree or concur; subscribe to , acquiescence; compliance.

Thats actually what confessing is, to agree or to say the same thing ,I.to say the same thing as another, i.e. to agree with, assent

All this has been accomplished and effected by the Death of Christ !500

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