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1  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ in us Scriptures on: April 13, 2014, 08:39:14 PM

Yes, our perfect Dad sees us with Christ's perfection, since He is beyond (and within) time.  And yet, in our experiential world we still have growing to do.  We learn to trust Him more and more, we hunger to obey Him in His righteousness, we get to be filled progressively full with gratitude for Who He is to us.

He calls us to "abide in Him", as He abides in us.  We are instructed to keep on offering our bodies as living sacrifices, and to "put to death" the immorality which remains.

Romans 8:13
"For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

Colossians 3:5
"Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry."

Not that we can do this in our own strength, but only in His.  Which takes some real learning.  We are perfect in Jesus, and yet, not yet.  But He says we will be, and He should know.
2  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Holy Bibles and Corrupt Bibles on: April 13, 2014, 08:20:57 PM

Thanks for your evaluation, maka.  Now let's take a closer look at some of it.

Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.  Except for one thing -- the Holy Spirit "begets" a new Son of God each time a person receives Christ as their Lord and Savior.

1 John 2:29  Amplified
"If you know (perceive and are sure) that He [Christ] is [absolutely] righteous [conforming to the Fatherís will in purpose, thought, and action], you may also know (be sure) that everyone who does righteously [and is therefore in like manner conformed to the divine will] is born (begotten) of Him [God]."

Other places (such as 1 John 3:9, and 4:7) says that the greek word translated "begotten" shows that all Sons of God are begotten / born of Him.  We must be "born again" and that only comes through a "begetting" by the Holy Spirit.

In addition, the word translated in the KJV as "only-begotten" also means "unique", i believe. And Jesus is the Unique Son of God, eternally begotten, not made first, then begotten, as Believers in Christ are.  So some of the translations you accuse of distortion may not be so far off as you judge them to be.

Similarly, the greek word for the verb "to corrupt", has the additional meaning of "perverting something for profit", i believe.  So your judgment against those Bibles which use that translation of the word may be a bit unfair.
....

Glad to see you back worc!  Geneva Bible, eh?  I'll take a look.

Maka, the "corruption" problem you cite is not valid as i stated above.  The "missing "infallible proofs"" is also somewhat contrived, since Jesus gave many proofs to many people that He was alive and well after the Resurrection, for 40 days, and to over 500 hundred people who knew Him.  And we can be sure that any proof Jesus gave was infallible, since He is.

It appears you over-step yourself trying to invalidate all translations other than the KJV, which is seen to have errors (see the relevant topic for some of those errors).  I think you may have invested a lot of ego in your pet theories and that makes you invent version inadequacies to support your theories, in their numerous repetitions.

But, then, i've been wrong before -- have you?
3  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Some errors in the beloved KJV on: April 10, 2014, 12:36:05 PM

Here is the current list of some of the errors discussed above:

=======

1.  The KJV used the word "Easter" when it should have used the word "Passover" in Acts 12:4.  (All other translations have corrected this error.)

2.  The KJV used the word "kill" when the word "murder" would have been more correct -- for example, in the Commandment prohibiting it.

3.  The Greek word meaning "immersion" was changed to "baptism" in several places in the KJV.

4.  The Greek word meaning "assembly" was consistently changed to a different Greek word meaning "pertaining to the Lord" in the KJV, which then morphed into our "church".  

5.  The Greek word meaning (Holy) "Spirit" was translated as (Holy) "Ghost" 90 times by the KJV translators, but they switched to "Holy Spirit" 7 times where the same Greek word occurred in the NT.  All other versions are consistent in their translation of the word as Spirit.

6.  In Isaiah 45:7, the KJV says that God "creates evil", which is untrue by our current definition of "evil".  Most newer translations translate the word correctly as God "creates calamity / disaster".

7.  Though not really "errors" in the KJV necessarily, it is good to be aware that over 700 english words in the KJV have changed in meaning in the last 400 years.  

[ http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/king-james-dictionary/ ]

=======

Since our friend (  kiss ), maka, has continually refused to respond or to provide an explanation of how the KJV can be perfect in spite of them, i may begin a new thread examining them from the point of view of KJV supporters (if i get some more time and inspiration...).

Before i start seeing if there are any attempted resolutions to the errors in the KJV listed above, i would like to add another entire area of mistranslations -- the topic of "hell".  The KJV translators were inconsistent in their translations of Sheol, Tatarus, Gehenna, etc, sometimes lumping all of the original words into "hell", but these words had very different meanings in the greek and hebrew.

So, big-orange, if you are reading this, how about giving us a breakdown on this subtopic?  You have studied much on the topic of "hell", and one of your recent references (in the theology forum, topic "Eternal torture still dies") provided some good analysis of the terms involved.

What say ye, bigor?  Want to try it?  Thanks, if you are willing.   huh
4  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Believers will believe, doubters will doubt and haters will hate. on: April 08, 2014, 12:32:36 PM
Why does anyone posting here bother to read or reply to savedbygrace or makahiya (who I think are really the same person).  Just ignore them and maybe he will go away.

First of all, there is the (slight, perhaps) possibility that maka will "see the Light" and repent of his arrogance.

Second of all, there is the (vague) possibility that he is right and the KJV is the perfect Bible.

Third, there is the (more likely) possibility that we will all learn something of value, and dig deeper into the Word.

Other than that, it seems pretty hopeless...   cool
5  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Eternal torture still dies on: April 08, 2014, 12:46:25 AM

Sorry, for some reason i get a "video currently unavailable" message every time i try to watch it.  Might be a browser problem.  Can you describe what material is in it?

The title looks intriguing:  "Eternal Torment is a Doctrine of Demons".
6  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Some errors in the beloved KJV on: April 08, 2014, 12:39:38 AM

Here is the current list of some of the errors discussed above:

=======

1.  The KJV used the word "Easter" when it should have used the word "Passover" in Acts 12:4.  (All other translations have corrected this error.)

2.  The KJV used the word "kill" when the word "murder" would have been more correct -- for example, in the Commandment prohibiting it.

3.  The Greek word meaning "immersion" was changed to "baptism" in several places in the KJV.

4.  The Greek word meaning "assembly" was consistently changed to a different Greek word meaning "pertaining to the Lord" in the KJV, which then morphed into our "church".  

5.  The Greek word meaning (Holy) "Spirit" was translated as (Holy) "Ghost" 90 times by the KJV translators, but they switched to "Holy Spirit" 7 times where the same Greek word occurred in the NT.  All other versions are consistent in their translation of the word as Spirit.

6.  In Isaiah 45:7, the KJV says that God "creates evil", which is untrue by our current definition of "evil".  Most newer translations translate the word correctly as God "creates calamity / disaster".

7.  Though not really "errors" in the KJV necessarily, it is good to be aware that over 700 english words in the KJV have changed in meaning in the last 400 years.  

[ http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/king-james-dictionary/ ]

=======

Since our friend (  kiss ), maka, has continually refused to respond or to provide an explanation of how the KJV can be perfect in spite of them, i may begin a new thread examining them from the point of view of KJV supporters (if i get some more time and inspiration...).
7  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Invitations to forgiveness on: April 08, 2014, 12:29:01 AM

maka quoting: "THE BIBLE contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy.
It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler's map, the pilgrim's staff, the pilot's compass, the soldier's sword, and the Christian's charter. Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened, and the gates of hell disclosed.

CHRIST is its grand subject, our good the design and the glory of God its end.  It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet.  Read it slowly, frequently, and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever.  It involves the highest responsibility, will reward the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

Author Unknown"


It is nice when we can have good agreement on something, maka.
8  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Bible reading plan - update on: April 08, 2014, 12:23:03 AM

One side-benefit to reading the entire Bible is that now all the verses are somewhere in your memory banks for the Holy Spirit to call to your mind as needed.  Naturally it helps even more when we meditate on the Word and "hide it in our hearts" as we are instructed to do.
9  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Believers will believe, doubters will doubt and haters will hate. on: April 08, 2014, 12:18:54 AM
Why do you constantly accuse us of making things up? Anything that doesn't agree with you is apparently made up. What I'm beginning to suspect is made up would be your supposedly impressive credentials.

Did you ever notice that bro' mak' seems to have just made up "the record theory" and "the purified text theory"?

But, sorry, i can't quote any Scripture to prove them wrong....
10  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Final Authority and Final Canonization on: April 08, 2014, 12:12:48 AM
lol, you made that up !

The scriptures are the final authority.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received,
how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day
according to the scriptures.

Predestination, inspiration, providence and preservation
continued throughout final canonization and publication of scripture.
While the entire line of scripture are records, the outstanding record of scripture
and the scripture of final authority is the published text and form
of the AV 1611 KJV Holy Bible first edition.

The KJV Holy Bible is the most published, read and loved bible of all time.
The KJV Holy Bible is the most published, read and loved book of all time.


Look for a book which a black cover, red or gold trim pages, with two words on the cover.
.

I assume that in your last sentence here you meant "a book with a black cover".  And that points up the fallacy in depending on a particular translation as being infallible.  Only God knows the true original form of the Writings He inspired in the Biblical authors. 

So only the Holy Spirit has the actual Scriptures as intended, which are eternal.  The Final Authority is God Himself, Who works through His Spirit to reveal to us the actual meaning of each verse in His Book.

We are not to worship a collection of paper pages bound in a (often) black leather cover with two words on the front (often in gold).  We worship the Giver of the Word, and learn to understand the Bible as He reveals its meanings to us.



The Bible, in all translations, is by far the most published, read and loved book of all time.  Some of the versions are more popular than others, but popularity doesn't guarantee reliability.



KJV Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit ?
there is more hope of a fool than of him.

The KJV Holy Bible is the most published, read and loved book of all time.


You seem to be very wise, in your opinion of yourself.  Perhaps i am misunderstanding you.

The Holy Bible, in all translations, is the most published, read and loved book of all time.  One Book, various versions, some better than others, but the same 66 Books unified, many colors and textures of covers, but yet One Book.
11  Forums / Main Forum / Re: God's learning channel on: April 08, 2014, 12:00:34 AM
I have a copy of the Complete Jewish Bible and I really like it. Don't use it exclusively, but it is a good way to amp up my devotional time at times.

Another "Jewish roots" type Bible is "The Scriptures" put out by the Institute for Scripture Research.  Here's part of a description of it:

 
"In the printed edition, you will notice that the order of the books in the Pre-Messianic Scriptures (Old Testament) are in the Hebraic order with Torah (Law) first, then the Nebi'im (Prophets), then the Kethubim (Writings). This makes for a learning curve for most people who are used to the traditional English versions. The names of the Heavenly Father and His Messiah are in Hebrew letters. Also, the names of persons in scripture are more accurately transliterated into English. For instance, "Jacob" is "Ya'aqob"."

It takes a little extra effort to see the more accurate Hebrew names for cities and people and God, instead of the "anglicized" forms of those names, though the main part of the translation is in english.   But it can be fascinating for some of us, too.

http://eliyah.com/thescriptures/

http://www.biblecollectors.org/reviews/the_scriptures.htm
12  Forums / Main Forum / Re: God's learning channel on: April 07, 2014, 11:51:48 PM
Thanks, KK.  I think I might buy the "Complete Jewish Bible" - at least on Kindle.  It sounds like it might be just what I need to get me back reading/studying the bible.  

I have really enjoyed studying that one in the past, but haven't had it in a while.  You might also be interested in an accompanying commentary, which gives the Jewish background to a lot of the passages.

One thing i remember learning from the commentary was that at the time of Jesus, Jerusalem had a very large menorah (75' tall i believe) which would have been being lit up for Hanukkah when Jesus proclaimed Himself the Light of the world.  The "candlestick" was so large that it had to have large bowls to hold the oil at the top, and the underwear of young priests was used as wicks.

Imagine what an impact that might have, to stand beside a huge menorah, freshly lit up to remember God's graciousness to Israel, with its light shining over the entire city, as Jesus reveals the spiritual meaning, in Person, right before their eyes, if they could only see.  Wow....
13  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Holy Bibles and Corrupt Bibles on: April 07, 2014, 11:42:44 PM


Thanks for your evaluation, maka.  Now let's take a closer look at some of it.

Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.  Except for one thing -- the Holy Spirit "begets" a new Son of God each time a person receives Christ as their Lord and Savior.

1 John 2:29  Amplified
"If you know (perceive and are sure) that He [Christ] is [absolutely] righteous [conforming to the Fatherís will in purpose, thought, and action], you may also know (be sure) that everyone who does righteously [and is therefore in like manner conformed to the divine will] is born (begotten) of Him [God]."

Other places (such as 1 John 3:9, and 4:7) says that the greek word translated "begotten" shows that all Sons of God are begotten / born of Him.  We must be "born again" and that only comes through a "begetting" by the Holy Spirit.

In addition, the word translated in the KJV as "only-begotten" also means "unique", i believe. And Jesus is the Unique Son of God, eternally begotten, not made first, then begotten, as Believers in Christ are.  So some of the translations you accuse of distortion may not be so far off as you judge them to be.

Similarly, the greek word for the verb "to corrupt", has the additional meaning of "perverting something for profit", i believe.  So your judgment against those Bibles which use that translation of the word may be a bit unfair.

I don't have time right now to explore the last charges, but will try to do so later.  I suspect there will be a similar situation there also.  Peace, bro' mak'....


This is ridiculous !

You are quoting a translation which you do not believe is infallible scripture given by inspiration of God.

KJV Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.


OK, bro' mak', let's look a little closer, this time at the beloved KJV:

1 Cor 4:15 KJV
"For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel."

1 Peter 1:3  KJV
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead..."

1 John 5:18
"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

So we see, maka, that all Believers are Begotten Sons of God, "born again", through Christ via the Holy Spirit.  However, Jesus Christ is the Uniquely-Only-Begotten Son of God because He was the Son of God before the Creation, whereas all other Sons of God are created first, then begotten.

And we might notice that the Amplified Version is agreeing with the greek Scriptures, while showing more shades of meaning of the greek words, which is its intention as a translation.
14  Forums / Main Forum / Re: KJV Holy Bible Christians founded the U.S.A. on: April 07, 2014, 11:32:11 PM
I'm with you KK. Of course, you're much more persistent that I am. I've pretty much left this discussion. But you're giving some good coherent arguments.

I'm glad you agree that it would be good for maka to answer the specific examples of errors in the KJV rather than just being dismissive.  He only drives people away with what appears to be arrogance.  Which is sad, since he also presents some valuable facts.

You are reading this aren't you maka?  You present your "credentials" often, yet you don't answer simple questions like the one about the KJV mistranslating the greek word for Passover as "easter" (which all other translations have corrected).  Of course, that is just an example, there are many others -- but we needn't cover the roughly 400 you claim have been resolved -- the small handfull of the most important errors in the KJV i have listed under that topic will do, i think.  

You have an opportunity to enlighten many people here, maka, if you will only come down off your scholar-throne and share what you know that answers real questions from real people.  'K, buddy?   kiss  


You do not understand the Record Theory or the Purified Text Theory.

You don't even know the questions of final canonization.
.

Your pointing out my ignorance doesn't answer the questions i raised.  For example, why can't you respond to the most obvious error in the KJV, the mistranslation of the greek word for Passover as "easter" in Acts 12:4 (which all other translations have corrected)?
15  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ in us Scriptures on: April 05, 2014, 12:45:17 AM

If anyone has any doubt about whether they are "saved" or not, a "true Believer" or not, one way to gain some certainty is to read the Scriptures listed in the first post above.

If we have Christ Jesus living in us, we are His, eternally.  If you don't know Him yet, but you want Him to live in and through you, then you have but to ask and receive Him, in trust and dependence.

In Him, in us, are all the wonderful blessings God has in store for us.


2 Corinthians 1:20
"For all the Promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us."
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