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1  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: He shall save, not maybe save, His People from their sins ! on: July 16, 2015, 10:19:45 PM
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sbg: "So understand something, if we say Christ died for someone, died for their sins, and then we turn around and say that the one He died to save, dies in their sins and in unbelief Jn 8:24, we are saying, whether we realize it or not, that Christ failed to save them from their sins ! We are calling His whole Saving Campaign to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21, a failure, and that's something we will have to answer for in the Day of Judgment unless of course we are granted repentance to the acknowledgement of the Truth before that Day !"



Not quite correct, as i see it.  If a person persists in rejecting the impulse of the Spirit toward repentance and belief/trust in Christ as Lord and Savior, it is not Jesus Who has failed.  For He provided perfect salvation for all who will come to choose to receive it.  He does not force salvation on anyone, though He could well do so if He so chose.

But perfect love does not compel anyone to love them against their will.  So Jesus always succeeds, both in saving completely those who can let go of their suppression of His love for them, and in not compelling salvation upon those who cling to their repression of His convicting love for them until their death.    

Thus, He is the true Savior of all mankind, but only those who receive Him will be saved in the  End, which is not His "failure", rather it is His love for the lost which is thereby revealed.  Perfect love never fails, including allowing those who reject Him persistently to choose freely their own destruction.

1 Tim 4:10
"...We trust in the living God, Who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe."

Romans 1:17-19
"For in it (the Gospel) the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”  For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the Truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them."
2  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Crush, seized, bound, threw, shut, sealed on: July 16, 2015, 10:03:06 PM

Interesting.  But i seem to associate being "'sealed" with Believers, especially by the Holy Spirit.  What Scripture says satan will be "sealed"?

Oh, i see the problem.  It is the NIV which has "sealed" in Revelation 20:22, while the NKJV has "set a seal on him", referring to satan being locked up in the bottomless pit.

OK, that's a good thing to remember.
3  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Eternal torture appears dead at last on: July 07, 2015, 11:49:50 AM
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Surely there must be someone here who still believes in the eternal torture of the lost -- in spite of the Scriptural information presented in the first post above for this topic.

Is there no one willing to discuss/defend the standard doctrine of an unending, unmerciful suffering (by keeping them alive forever), of those who persistently reject the perfect love/forgiveness of our righteous God and Savior?

I promise to try to be respectful and willing to dialog, not just make pronouncements at you  I believe your understanding of God's love for even His worst enemies will be clarified.



Ephesians 3:17-19  Amplified
"May Christ through your faith [actually] dwell (settle down, abide, make His permanent home) in your hearts! May you be rooted deep in love and founded securely on love,

That you may have the power and be strong to apprehend and grasp with all the saints [God’s devoted people, the experience of that love] what is the breadth and length and height and depth [of it];

[That you may really come] to know [practically, through experience for yourselves] the love of Christ, which far surpasses mere knowledge [without experience]; that you may be filled [through all your being] unto all the fullness of God [may have the richest measure of the divine Presence, and become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself]!"
4  Forums / Key Life Forum / Re: The dark side of islam on: July 07, 2015, 11:03:55 AM
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Many muslims continue to come to believe in Christ as Lord and Savior, even though the islamic religion appears statistically to be growing.  Here is info on the growth rate from wikiislam, which shows why islam is getting bigger even while many muslims convert to Jesus, the Son of God:

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"Twenty years ago, the world had about 1.1 billion Muslims. Twenty years from now, it will have about twice as many - and they'll represent more than a quarter of all people on earth, according to a new [Pew] study released [January 27, 2011] Thursday.  That's a rise from less than 20 percent in 1990.
. . .
The Muslim share of the global population will rise primarily because of their relatively high birth rate, the large number of Muslims of childbearing age, and an increase in life expectancy in Muslim-majority countries, according to the report, "The Future of the Global Muslim Population."  Conversion will play relatively little part in the increase, the report anticipates. It says little data is available on conversion, but what little there is suggests Islam loses as many adherents via conversion as it gains."

-------


Looking at specific areas and countries, here is some more detail on the conversion of muslims to Believers in Jesus:


-------

Afghanistan's sharia law makes it a crime punishable by death for any Muslim to renounce their faith. Despite the risk, however, up to 10,000 Afghans (by 2011) have secretly converted to Christianity in recent years, disillusioned with what they see as Islam's overzealous involvement in politics.

In Africa, every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. [In general, every day, roughly 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Every year, about 6 million Muslims are converting to Christianity.}

In 1900, 76% of the population of sub-Saharan Africa practiced indigenous religions, while 14% were Muslim and 9% were Christian. Today, 57% of the population is Christian, while 29% are Muslim and 13% practice indigenous religions. 

Sub-Saharan Africa and the Asia-Pacific region now have a combined population of about 800 million Christians, roughly the same as the Americas. And five of the top 10 countries with the largest Christian populations are either in Africa (Nigeria, Democratic Republic of the Congo and Ethiopia) or Asia (Philippines and China). Moreover, the fastest growth in the number of Christians over the past century has been in sub-Saharan Africa (a roughly 60-fold increase, from fewer than 9 million in 1910 to more than 516 million in 2010) and in the Asia-Pacific region (a roughly 10-fold increase, from about 28 million in 1910 to more than 285 million in 2010).

From Denmark:  “Over the past two years we have had an increasing number of Muslims who come to be embraced by Christianity than all of the previous years put together. They experience religious freedom in Denmark and for the first time many can choose the religion they want,” says Priest Nabil Astafanos."

From Egypt: "The number of Muslim-born converts to Christianity in Egypt, who are keeping their faith secret, has reached several million. Due to the State Security's persecution, torture and rape, they have established outside Egypt an organization called "Freed by Christ" as well as "Way TV" to speak on their behalf to the West..."

From France: "Muslims are converting to Christianity in their thousands in France but face exclusion from their families and even death threats.
. . .
Muslims each year are converting to Christianity - around 10,000 to Catholicism and 5,000 to Protestantism."

From Iran: "There has been concern over fact that many young people in Iran have abandoned Islam because they're tired of the many restrictions imposed by the faith.  According to unofficial sources, in the past five years, one million Iranians, particularly young people and women, have abandoned Islam and joined Evangelical churches.  This phenomenon has surprised even the missionaries who carry out their activities in secret in Iran."
......
On October 2, the government-supported news website, Javan-Online, acknowledged that the acceptance of Christianity was becoming a trend and reported 200 house churches were discovered in just a few months in the traditionally Islamic city of Mashhad.  Many high ranking government officials and Islamic religious leaders have also made statements expressing concern over the spread of Christianity."

From Kygryzstan:  "Five percent of the majority Muslim population in Kyrgyzstan have converted to Christianity due to the spreading missionary work in the former Soviet republic, a Russian newspaper reported Saturday, June 26.  In terms of figures, he added, some 100,000 Muslims, of the country’s five million population, have converted to Christianity.
The percentage of Muslims declined from 84 percent of the total population in 2001 to 79.3 percent in 2004.

From Malaysia:  "Head of the Malaysian State of Perak Mufti (religious head) Dato' Seri Haji Harussani Haji Zakaria announced that there are close to 250,000 Muslim apostates in Malaysia.  This figure includes about 100,000 Malay Muslims who have declared themselves Christians. Another 100,000 Muslims are in the process of filing for apostasy while the rest are filing in to have their Muslim name changed to "other religion name"."

From Morocco: "On 27 March 2010, the Moroccan magazine TelQuel stated that thousands of Moroccans had converted to Christianity."

From Russia: "The number of ethnic Muslims in Russia who adopted Christianity is 2 million, while the number of the Orthodox who have been converted to Islam is only 2.5 thousand, stated Roman Silantyev, executive secretary of the Inter-religious Council in Russia."

From Turkey:  "Some 35,000 Turks converted from Islam to Christianity last year,with most joining evangelical congregations the newspaper, "Milliet," reports. If true, this would amount to a mass movement, considering Christians make up only 0.2 percent of Turkey's 68 million population."

From the U.S.:  "According to research carried out by the respected Pakistani-born American Muslim Dr. Ilyas Ba-Yunus (1932 - 2007), 75% of new Muslim converts in the US leave Islam within a few years....  Growth of Islam in the US stems from immigration.  Roughly two-thirds (65%) of adult Muslims living in the United States were born elsewhere, and 39% have come to the US since 1990".

------


These figures are somewhat dated, but i am sure that with the constant violence, murders, rapes and forced "conversions" to islam by extremists all over the globe, the gracious love of God, revealed in His Son Jesus Christ, is winning the hearts of growing numbers of muslims.

Maybe even some who are reading right here and now....

5  Forums / Main Forum / Re: God Will Not Let You Go.. on: July 07, 2015, 10:13:59 AM
Hello. I just wanted to share this video that's been an encouragement to me, I hope it's an encouragement to you as well:

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/god-will-not-let-you-go


Good stuff!  Lays low "works-righteousness", doesn't it.

I'll check out the other videos linked there, also.  Go, Piper, go!
6  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Exposing false teaching about the atonement on: June 26, 2015, 12:11:09 PM
Did Christ die only for the elect?  The scriptures say otherwise.  Christ died for all men.
Quote
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoeverbelieves in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
Quote
John 12:32
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself." (John 12:32)
Quote
Romans 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin, once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Quote
2 Cor 5:15
For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf. (2 Corinthians 5:15)
Quote
1 Tim 4:10
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. (1 Timothy 4:10)
Quote
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11)
Quote
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)
Quote
1 Pet 3:18
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; (1 Peter 3:18)


So then, let's look at just the key phrases here, and see if Christ's death on the Cross was sufficient for the salvation of all mankind, or just the elect only.  (In reverse order using the Scriptures listed above.)


.....He died for sins, once for all...,,,,
.....He does not wish for any of us to perish, but wants all to come to repentance......
.....His grace appeared bringing salvation to all men......
.....He is the Savior of all men, especially we who believe......
.....He died for all......
.....He died to sin for all......
.....He draws all men to Himself......
.....Whoever believes in Him will not perish.....


It seems clear that He died for all mankind, yet only those who receive His unending Life will live eternally.  He does not desire anyone to perish, yet permits those who choose to continue their rebellion until their death to be destroyed in the End, since that will be the deepest desire of their hearts/minds/souls at the Judgment.

It appears that sbg has the correct title for this topic, but this shows him to be the one whose teaching is contradicting the Word of God.
7  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Exposing false teaching about the atonement on: June 24, 2015, 02:25:19 PM
Did Christ die only for the elect?  The scriptures say otherwise.  Christ died for all men.


Quote
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoeverbelieves in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

Quote
John 12:32
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself." (John 12:32)

Quote
Romans 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin, once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

Quote
2 Cor 5:15
For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf. (2 Corinthians 5:15)

Quote
1 Tim 4:10
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. (1 Timothy 4:10)

Quote
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11)

Quote
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

Quote
1 Pet 3:18
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; (1 Peter 3:18)



Thanks for repeating the relevant Scriptures again, beacon2.  It appears sbg has considerable spiritual pride, which i can only recognize by having even more.  Us proud folk need lots of repetition of the actual Word to correct our somewhat deviant thinking.

And hi, sbg, brother in Christ.  We have so much in common, perhaps the Lord will help us act more like true brothers, in Him. 
8  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ our Life, When ? on: June 24, 2015, 02:09:54 PM

I would be glad to review your points back to you if you would be willing to review my points back to me, so i can be sure you understand and so i can focus on any misunderstanding you may have of what i have responded to your points.

Sorry, that's a bit wordy.  Just tell me what i said and i will tell you what you said, OK?

So you just confirmed that you dont want to do as i asked, suit yourself, but you shall reap what you sow !

Then you are sowing evasion, since you evade any points that may disagree with your pronouncements by trying to get people to repeat your points.  Please try to actually look at the Scripture and comments offered in response to your posts and you will breed less "evasion" as you prefer to see it.  Maybe you are missing something, but you won't know until you actually look at what is presented to you.

Yes, i know you will probably just take the easy way out, and make the evasion charge again, but at least i tried to communicate with you.  Could you consider doing the same?

Christ is the Source of life for all people, Believers and unbelievers alike.  But we must be "born again" of His Spirit to be His; we need His unending Life.  Yes we were foreknown to accept Him, yes we are predestined to be His by that same foreknowledge.  Yet we don't actually have unending Life until we receive Him.


Romans 8:8-10  Amplified
"So then those who are living the life of the flesh [catering to the appetites and impulses of their carnal nature] cannot please or satisfy God, or be acceptable to Him.

"But you are not living the life of the flesh, you are living the life of the Spirit, if the [Holy] Spirit of God [really] dwells within you [directs and controls you]. But if anyone does not possess the [Holy] Spirit of Christ, he is none of His [he does not belong to Christ, is not truly a child of God].

"But if Christ lives in you, [then although] your [natural] body is dead by reason of sin and guilt, the spirit is alive because of [the] righteousness [that He imputes to you]."


And He does not come into us until He is invited by us to come in (though even our invitation is initiated and assisted by Him - - He doesn't force Himself upon us against our will).
9  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Sons before believers ! on: June 24, 2015, 02:06:35 PM
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I think sbg is unwilling to actually look at any Scripture which doesn't fit his theology.  

Thus the charge of "evasion".  Thus the insistence upon people reviewing and repeating his points before he will respond to their counter-points.

Or am i wrong about that sbg?  I would like to be.

Both Jeff and i have brought up that no one has the right to be Sons of God unless they receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.  The verse seems clear enough, but let's look at it in the Amplified version to see any possible "shades of meaning" in the greek:


John 1:11-13
"He came to that which belonged to Him [to His own—His domain, creation, things, world], and they who were His own did not receive Him and did not welcome Him.

"But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name—who owe their birth neither to bloods nor to the will of the flesh [that of physical impulse] nor to the will of man [that of a natural father], but to God. [They are born of God!]"

This verse seems to be clear in stating that people do not have the authority/power/privilege/right to become the children of God unless they believe in/adhere to/trust in/rely on His name/nature. Which doesn't mean, of course, that God didn't foreknow which of us would become His adopted children -- He foreknew us, yet our actual, in this universe, becoming His Sons came as we received Christ, not before.


Evasion !


How long will you, yourself,  evade the point being made here?   huh

You say "evasion".  I say evasion.  Now would you respond to the point that we have to receive the right/privilege to become the Sons of God by receiving Christ?  We are not automatically Sons by the verse quoted above, we have to be "adopted".
10  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Faith is a Good Work we do after being created in Christ ! on: June 22, 2015, 12:56:28 PM
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Yes, i have.

Have you considered that the first "work" that is done in the process of receiving the Gift of faith, is a releasing of our suppression / repression of the Truth, Who is seeking to save us?


Romans 1:18  Amplified
"For God’s [holy] wrath and indignation are revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who in their wickedness repress and hinder the Truth and make it inoperative."


Ultimately, what condemns a person to final destruction is this persistent rejection of Christ / Truth.  And salvation doesn't happen until, with God's full assistance, a person lets go of their rebellion and accepts the unending Life given to us so freely, if we will but receive it.
11  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Sons before believers ! on: June 22, 2015, 12:47:05 PM
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I think sbg is unwilling to actually look at any Scripture which doesn't fit his theology.  

Thus the charge of "evasion".  Thus the insistence upon people reviewing and repeating his points before he will respond to their counter-points.

Or am i wrong about that sbg?  I would like to be.

Both Jeff and i have brought up that no one has the right to be Sons of God unless they receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.  The verse seems clear enough, but let's look at it in the Amplified version to see any possible "shades of meaning" in the greek:


John 1:11-13
"He came to that which belonged to Him [to His own—His domain, creation, things, world], and they who were His own did not receive Him and did not welcome Him.

"But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name—who owe their birth neither to bloods nor to the will of the flesh [that of physical impulse] nor to the will of man [that of a natural father], but to God. [They are born of God!]"

This verse seems to be clear in stating that people do not have the authority/power/privilege/right to become the children of God unless they believe in/adhere to/trust in/rely on His name/nature. Which doesn't mean, of course, that God didn't foreknow which of us would become His adopted children -- He foreknew us, yet our actual, in this universe, becoming His Sons came as we received Christ, not before.


Evasion !


How long will you, yourself,  evade the point being made here?   huh
12  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Who are the All Here Christ was delivered up for ? on: June 22, 2015, 12:43:12 PM
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kingsk

Quote
Nothing previously said in this topic proves that Christ's death on the Cross was not sufficient for the salvation of the entire world.

Did you read the OP and the other posts following it ?

Can you point out the part which proves that Christ's death on the Cross wasn't sufficient for the salvation of the entire world.  Anyone who repents and receives Christ as the Savior He is can be saved.  Only those who do so, and God foreknows who will come to let go of their repression and rebellion, will receive the Gift which is all-sufficient for the Salvation of every person.

Note again that God "now commands all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17).  Not just "the elect", but all men everywhere.  And He would never command anyone to do anything which is impossible (even with His help).  The lost must choose to suppress His perfect love, continuously, to stay lost.  

Being "saved" is not a work of effort on our part, it is releasing the effort all people exert to keep God out of their lives.  Being lost is the ultimate "work" of mankind, being saved is the ultimate work of Christ in those who can (with His full assistance) become willing to be His.

Evasion !

Note that nothing in the Scriptures you quoted said that Christ's death wasn't sufficient for everyone in the world, if they would come to accept His unending love and Life.  Yes, God foreknew those who would be saved, and He also foreknew who would be lost, since He is not bound by time.

Yet the Cross is totally sufficient for all who will come (with God's assistance) to believe / trust in the Savior.  If all men repented and let go of their suppression of the Truth, all would be saved.  And all can do so, since God commands all men everywhere to repent and believe in His Son.

It is not true that He predestined most of mankind to be lost, in the sense of forces them to reject Christ.  Rather, He makes it possible for all men to repent, if they can become willing, and He provides the faith that saves.  No one is given no opportunity to be saved, and the Sacrifice is all-sufficient, though few will accept the Gift, as He knew from before the Beginning.


Revelation 3:20
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."


And those who persist in keeping Him out will not dine with Him, forever, but "anyone" may come, if they but give Him entry to their lives.
13  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Eternal torture appears dead at last on: June 21, 2015, 11:37:05 AM
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Oh, this topic got pushed too far down the stack, i think.

There are probably still people who have been taught that the lost will be tortured for an unending, unmerciful period of time because they have immortal bodies of some kind.

Please read section A of the outline, in the first post for this topic, to see more clearly that the lost are never said in Scripture to be made immortal.  Only Jesus Christ has immortality at the present, and only Believers are to be given immortality at their resurrection.  The lost will remain mortal, and die the Second Death, upon their resurrection, the final death which is forever, and only their dead bodies will be seen in the everlasting Lake of Fire ("Gehenna" is the term Jesus used).

It would be interesting and helpful to see the approach sbg takes to this topic.  (But you are probably not reading this invitation....)
14  Forums / Main Forum / Re: The Bible versus rome on: June 20, 2015, 11:29:14 AM

It comes to mind that there are many millions of roman catholics, some of whom have Jesus Christ living in them, permanently, as their Savior and Life.  Yet there are many who do not, just as there are many protestant church-goers who "believe" in their minds, but don't trust in/depend on Him to save them, choosing instead to trust in their own "works" for salvation.

We are to love them, and reach out to them with the Gospel of reconciliation, just as we would to believers in any other system of works-righteousness.  How do you, personally, do that while helping them see the extreme contrast between what they are taught by catholicism compared to what the Bible really says?



The roman catholic church has been striving for a "counter-reformation" since the days of Martin Luther and John Calvin.  And current protestant ecumenical movements often attempt to unite with rome by minimizing doctrinal differences between them.  But many of the r.c.c. teachings stand directly opposed to the Bible.

Here are some of those key differences, using the "catechism of the catholic church", 1994, (with source section numbers in parentheses).  Most of the material is taken from "Proclaiming the Gospel" ministries (www.pro-gospel.org) by evangelist Mike Gendron.  I will be adding sections as i develop them.

When we see the true differences between r.c.c. doctrines and the Bible, we will not want to unite with this "other gospel" which contradicts Scripture on all these major points.

+++++++                  Final Authority

Bible: Scripture has final authority over the Church.  2 Tim. 3:16

rcc: the church has authority over Scriptures.  The manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgment of the church...to the pope and to the bishops (100,119).

+++++++                  Salvation - part 1

Bible: man is saved by God's unmerited grace.  Eph. 2:8-9

rcc: man is saved by meriting the graces needed for salvation.  We can merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for the attainment of eternal life (2010).


Bible: man is saved for good works.  Eph. 2:10

rcc: man is saved by good works.  In this way they attain their own salvation and cooperate in saving their brothers (1477).

+++++++                  Salvation - part 2

Bible: man is saved for all eternity.  (Eph. 1:13-14)

rcc: man is saved only until the next mortal sin is committed.  Those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell (1055).


Bible: salvation is offered to those outside the Church.  2 Cor. 5:20

rcc: salvation is offered through the church.  Basing itself on Scripture and tradition, the church is necessary for salvation.  Anyone refusing to enter it, or remain in it cannot be saved (846).


Bible: all sins are purified by the Blood of Jesus.  1 John 1:7

rcc: some sins are purified by the fires of purgatory.  They undergo purification in purgatory, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of Heaven (1030-31).

+++++++                  Justification

Bible: man is justified once by faith because justification provides a permanent right standing before God and results in glorification.  Romans 8:30, 4:5

rcc: man is justified repeatedly by sacraments and works because he loses the grace of justification each time a mortal sin is committed.  The sacrament of penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification (1446).

+++++++                 Regeneration

Bible: man is regenerated at the baptism of the Holy Spirit.  For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one Body.  1 Cor. 12:13, 2 Thes. 2:13)

rcc: baptism of water is the sacrament of regeneration (1213).  The water of baptism truly signifies our birth into the divine life (694).

+++++++                 Saints and priests

Bible: man becomes a saint when the Spirit baptizes him into the Body of Christ.  Eph. 4:11-12

rcc: man becomes a saint only if the pope canonizes him.  This occurs when he solemnly proclaims that they practiced a heroic virtue and lived in fidelity to God's grace (828).


Bible: every Christian is a priest and a member of the royal priesthood.  1 Pet. 2:9

rcc: every man needs a priest for salvation.  Catholic priests guarantee that Christ is acting in the sacraments which are necessary for salvation (1120-29).

Plus,
Bible: Matthew 23:9  Jesus speaking:
"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He Who is in Heaven."


rcc:  catholic priests are usually called "father", the pope is called the "holy father".
15  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Index: Scripture-supporting evidences on: June 20, 2015, 11:10:44 AM
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Back in my "arrogant atheist days", i loved to argue with Christians and show them how ridiculous and irrational their beliefs were.  So, in order to "fine-tune" my arguments, i began to listen to a radio program which i had stumbled upon (Divine accident, of course), and paid close attention to the stupidity i heard coming from the mouth of a "hick from the sticks" named J. Vernon McGee.  Silly accent, bizarre confidence in patently absurd ideas and beliefs, far beneath my vastly superior intellect (he takes a bow to the cheering crowds....).

But as i listened, strangely enough,  rolleyes , he began slowly to make a little sense.  Not much, mind you, just some.  Anyway, i found out over the years of listening to him that he had been healed completely from cancer when he was expected to die soon, and kept on doing "Thru the Bible" as his program was known (or as it is known, since it is still being aired though he "went Home" some time ago).
 
Here is a general biographical statement about his life and ministry ( from hopefaithprayer.com ) :

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Dr. McGee’s greatest pastorate was at the historic, Church of the Open Door in downtown Los Angeles, where he served from 1949 to 1970. There he began a daily radio broadcast called “High Noon Bible Class” on a single station.

Dr. McGee began teaching Thru the Bible in 1967. After retiring from the pastorate, he set up radio headquarters in Pasadena, and the radio ministry expanded rapidly. Today the program airs on over 400 stations each day in the United States and Canada, is heard in more than 100 languages around the world and is broadcast worldwide via the Internet.

During his last few years, failing health demanded the cancellation of many speaking engagements. This was extremely distressing to him. There was no recurrence of an earlier bout with cancer during this time, only a weakening heart. Back in 1965, after radical surgery, the doctors had given him 6 months to live. The Lord gave him 23 years.

On the morning of December 1, 1988, a few minutes after a visit with the then Associate Director of Thru the Bible, alert and in conversation centered around his concern for the continuance of the radio ministry, Dr. McGee fell asleep in his chair and quietly passed into the presence of his Savior.

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If you want a detailed "trip through the entire Bible" in 5 years, you can "get on the Bible bus" by downloading his teaching/sermons from ttb.org (for Thru-The-Bible).  You may not agree with all of his theology, but he is guaranteed to make you re-examine and deepen your beliefs, if you listen.
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