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1  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Eternal torture appears dead at last on: July 29, 2014, 11:58:44 AM
Interesting to read through the interaction on this debate in other forums./ Shocked Afro

I kind of liked the phrase "eternal tormentalism", but it is a bit unwieldy so i don't think i'll adopt it except as a comeback to people who try to write off "conditional immortality" as some strange "annihilationism".   cheesy

By the way, bigor, in your many explorations on-line, have you found any good "arguments" for conditional immortality which i didn't cover in my outline in post one above?  Maybe i can squeeze them in and still keep the overall structure.  Thanks.
2  Forums / Main Forum / Re: KJV . . . any other gospel . . . let him be accursed. on: July 29, 2014, 11:46:42 AM

Using Scripture to try to belittle someone doesn't answer the question i raised:

I think you missed the question i was raising.  Can you see any major differences between the KJV and the ESV in the verses you cited?  Is the ESV "another gospel"?  I think not.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture  is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

You just called the KJV Holy Bible  "  scripture  " ,

yet stated that only the original manuscripts were inspired scripture.

KJV Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit ?
there is more hope of a fool than of him.

HIV You're an idiot !

Yes, i called the KJV Scripture.  And i call the ESV Scripture (among other versions).  

No translation of the original writings of Scripture contains all of the shades of meaning and accuracy of the writings directly inspired by the Holy Spirit (they alone were "God-breathed").  But each translation contains Scripture to the degree that it clearly reflects the original wording in the original languages, and we need the Spirit to be able to discern that.

Your problem is in fixating on a particular translation as if it were the only true and accurate one, yet it has over 700 words which have changed in meaning since KJV times, and contains clear errors (though you haven't yet admitted that to yourself).

Name-calling by insinuation doesn't verify your belief, but rather detracts from it.
3  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ in us Scriptures on: July 27, 2014, 11:27:31 AM

This remains the Scriptural test of whether we are "born again" or not -- His Life in us who believe/trust in/depend on Him.  In you, too?

There are many verses in the first post above, which are all valuable truths about Jesus living in us as His Believers.  Here are two which seem particularly defining for what being a Christian means.

2 Corinthians 13:5
"Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified."

Romans 8:9
"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."

Not trying to "guilt trip" anyone, but if someone reading here isn't sure if they are "saved", it's fairly easy to ask Jesus to come in and take over your life and will, to be your Savior, and to give you the faith that He has done so.  Easy to do, but more difficult to mean it sincerely, which is what He is looking for.
4  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Eternal torture appears dead at last on: July 27, 2014, 11:17:11 AM
Fudge book arriVed t0day...just getting iNt0 iT!!/ cool

Wonderful!  I almost wish he didn't have the name "fudge", though, since that often refers to "slightly modifying facts" in scientific data gathering....   cheesy

Of course, it can also mean "a highly sweet, thickly milk-based treat", can't it?
5  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Eternal torture appears dead at last on: July 26, 2014, 03:05:03 PM
Book still not here... huh

 ...but I did stay @ a Holiday Inn Express last night,not really cheesy....and found this!!/  cool

That article starts out well, but quickly turns to "universalism".  Which would be fine if that were clearly stated in Scripture. 

Unfortunately, it doesn't  seem to occur to the author that his questions have a different answer if "conditional immortality" is true, which i believe the Bible actually says.  I'll take a closer look and see if he later deals with that subject. 

One thing i notice is that he separates immortality from eternal Life, and that is true until the Resurrection of Believers.  But having unending Life is to be connected to Jesus, the Source of Life, and to be granted immortality by Him when He comes for us.  Yet, the lost reject His Life and His salvation, even unto the Second Death, which doesn't end.

Immortality is to be given a living body continuously, by God approving of, and maintaining, the existence of the person's form non-stop, forever.  Yet, the lost are never said to be given immortality in Scripture, rather they are given "eternal destruction" -- and even if we translate that as "for ages of ages", there is no mention in the Bible of a later resurrection after the Second Death, the final End, is administered.
6  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Who would you believe ? on: July 26, 2014, 02:56:16 PM

Since, as the "Some errors in the beloved KJV" topic shows, there have been many changes (over 700) in the meanings of english words since KJV times, it seems reasonable to use multiple translations, including an updated version of the KJV.

The fully-inspired Word of God is contained in the original hebrew and greek documents which He directly inspired.  We are better off not worshipping any particular translation, but asking the Holy Spirit to lead us in our choices of versions to study.  And He doesn't just speak KJ english...
7  Forums / Main Forum / Re: KJV . . . any other gospel . . . let him be accursed. on: July 26, 2014, 02:49:54 PM

Using Scripture to try to belittle someone doesn't answer the question i raised:

I think you missed the question i was raising.  Can you see any major differences between the KJV and the ESV in the verses you cited?  Is the ESV "another gospel"?  I think not.
8  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Jesus Baptist Church International on: July 26, 2014, 02:46:52 PM

One thing their "statements of faith" seem to make clear is that they believe that true Christians are completely sin-free, here and now, and only perfectly holy Believers will be saved.  Makes Heaven sound pretty empty.
9  Forums / Main Forum / Re: accounting on: July 26, 2014, 02:38:27 PM

Oh.  I thought you might be a "bad-smitten" kind of guy.   cool
10  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Who would you believe ?[ on: July 26, 2014, 02:35:47 PM
It's interesting that almost half of the versions i checked specify the three "Witnesses" in verse 7, but many do not, though they are specified in verse 8.  
11  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Some errors in the beloved KJV on: July 23, 2014, 10:59:37 AM

I see a lot of posts which portray the KJV as flawless, the only real "gospel".  But i don't see any response to these errors listed below from anyone.  Since maka refuses to answer them, would anyone else like to try to defend or explain them?  (Of course, the "short form" of defense is to say that all deviations in the KJV are inspired by the Spirit, no matter how much they may contradict other parts of Scripture.  Convenient explanation.)

I see you have been busy, bro' mak', at copying and pasting.  But i don't see that you have made any real attempt to answer this beginning list of errors in the beloved KJV.  Please forgive me if i am wrong about that.

Here is the current state of the list of probable errors in the 1611 KJV.

1.  The KJV used the word "Easter" when it should have used the word "Passover" in Acts 12:4.  (All other translations have corrected this error.)

2.  The KJV used the word "kill" when the word "murder" would have been more correct -- for example, in the Commandment prohibiting it.

3.  The Greek word meaning "immersion" was changed to "baptism" in several places in the KJV.

4.  The Greek word meaning "assembly" was consistently changed to a different Greek word meaning "pertaining to the Lord" in the KJV, which then morphed into our "church".  

5.  The Greek word meaning (Holy) "Spirit" was translated as (Holy) "Ghost" 90 times by the KJV translators, but they switched to "Holy Spirit" 7 times where the same Greek word occurred in the NT.  All other versions are consistent in their translation of the word as Spirit.

6.  In Isaiah 45:7, the KJV says that God "creates evil", which is untrue by our current definition of "evil".  Most newer translations translate the word correctly as God "creates calamity / disaster".

7.  In many places the KJV incorrectly translated the specific place names "Sheol, Gehenna and Tartarus" as "hell", but it did so inconsistently.  Many more modern versions maintain the original nouns since they have primary meanings different from the idea of a place of unending torture (which came into the Church after the 2nd Century).

8.  Though not really "errors" in the KJV necessarily, it is good to be aware that over 700 english words in the KJV have changed in meaning in the last 400 years.  They can cause misunderstandings which will have to be cleared up later.  It may be better to use an updated version of the KJV which updates those words which have changed over time, while retaining as much as possible of the grandeur of the language of the KJV -- or else have a dictionary handy like the one at:

[ ]

12  Forums / Main Forum / Re: KJV . . . any other gospel . . . let him be accursed. on: July 23, 2014, 10:57:26 AM

I think you missed the question i was raising.  Can you see any major differences between the KJV and the ESV in the verses you cited?  Is the ESV "another gospel"?  I think not.

I think it is time to raise the "Errors in the KJV" topic again, since you have never responded to those errors.
13  Forums / Key Life Forum / Re: The dark side of islam on: July 23, 2014, 10:50:30 AM

One "bright aspect" of the dark side of Islam has been showing up on the news lately.  Wherever fanatical, rabid islam is in control of a country, the conversion rate to Christianity secretly soars.  Just like it did under jewish and roman persecution of Believers.

Now why, i wonder, would that be consistently true?  Isn't it because people begin to see the evil and tyranny of a mankind-developed religion, compared to the freedom and grace among those who have Jesus actually living in them?

In the darkest night, the smallest light is magnified as it drives away the lack-of-light.  And Christ is the Light Who lights the Believer with forgiveness and self-sacrificial love.  Cruelty and tyranny are opportunities for Him to reveal the contrast between His character and satan's.  And that was just as true when false "churchianity" was in control (like the crusades, and the inquisition) as when radical islam is now.

1 John 1:6-7. 2:9
"If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.  But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin....
He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.  He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him."

Philippians 2:14-16
"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the Word of Life..."

14  Forums / Key Life Forum / Re: free games online on: July 23, 2014, 10:28:45 AM

How true.  The Way of the Truth-Life.
15  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Who would you believe ?[ on: July 21, 2014, 06:00:21 PM

When Jesus gives convincing proofs, they are infallible.

When He gives sure proofs, they are not fallible in any way.

When He shows proof in many ways, we can count on each way being infallible.

He is perfectly consistent.  And convincing, and sure, in as many ways as He chooses to reveal Himself.
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