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1  Forums / Main Forum / Am ah freed from sin? Ah reckon ah am. on: April 21, 2014, 07:31:28 PM

Best shot i have at being "sinless" is to believe what God says to us (if we believe / trust in / depend on Jesus Christ).

Romans 8:8-14
"Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.

"For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.  Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

"Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.  And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace."

So ah reckon ah am dead to sin, even though ah don't always experience that in this life. It's true anyway.  I have His Word for it.  So in the Kingdom beyond time there is God's idea of me, as His beloved son, and that version is the real, lasting one, in Christ Jesus, made holy by His Blood.

And this temporary human self is often more dead than it knows or will admit.  Still, the Book says i have been crucified with Christ -- i was there with Him, as were you, if you are His.  And He said "It is finished".  So we pray "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven".  Let His perfection of my(/our) life(/lives) show more clearly as He sanctifies me(/us) more completely.

It is this trustworthy hope which has a transforming influence in our lives, if i am understanding this passage correctly:

1 John 3:2-3
"Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.  And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure."

We believe, Lord -- please, help our unbelief.
2  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Some errors in the beloved KJV on: April 21, 2014, 07:16:10 PM

Well, i couldn't get my friend bigor(ange) to do the work for me on this next error, so i guess i'll have to take it on myself.  The issue is the handling by the KJV translators of the greek words they translated as "hell".  Pretty inconsistent and misleading.

To be continued...
3  Forums / Main Forum / Re: MacArthur @ it again..... on: April 21, 2014, 07:12:08 PM

Personally, i think John MacArthur often gets a "bad rap", and inaccurate judgementalism of his judgement-on-all-ism.  Sometimes it seems more like he is saying that those who disagree with fundamental teachings of the Bible are likely not saved.  I think Jesus would agree, wouldn't He?

The whole question then becomes what are the essential teachings of the Word of God, according to the Author (not mac-author)?  Still, one book i am starting to explore is an older classic by MacArthur, entitled "The Heart of the Bible".  I'll probably open a separate topic on that, since it tries to identify 52 of the most important Scriptural passages with respect to salvation, and encourages a week's meditation on each.
4  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Holy Bibles and Corrupt Bibles on: April 21, 2014, 06:48:04 PM

OK, bro' mak', let's look a little closer, this time at the beloved KJV:

1 Cor 4:15 KJV
"For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel."

1 Peter 1:3  KJV
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead..."

1 John 5:18
"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

So we see, maka, that all Believers are Begotten Sons of God, "born again", through Christ via the Holy Spirit.  However, Jesus Christ is the Uniquely-Only-Begotten Son of God because He was the Son of God before the Creation, whereas all other Sons of God are created first, then begotten.

And we might notice that the Amplified Version is agreeing with the greek Scriptures, while showing more shades of meaning of the greek words, which is its intention as a translation.

You're Wrong !

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us,
because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world,
that we might live through him.

As joker pointed out above, the greek word has as a primary meaning "unique", and Jesus Christ is the Uniquely Begotten Son of God, as some translations state.  However, every Believer in Him is "begotten of God" also, since "we must be born again from above", by the power of the Spirit.

What made Jesus unique, as part of His being fully God in the flesh, was that He existed as God before He became a man, and His Body was directly implanted into Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit without human-father intervention.

All Believers are begotten as Sons of God, eternal in Christ, after their physical birth, and after their spiritual birth, and the KJV distorts this truth.  Christ was uniquely begotten spiritually before He was born, and was physically begotten in a unique way also.
5  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Record Theory and Purified Text Theory on: April 21, 2014, 06:33:58 PM

I think that is the fatal flaw in his arguments.  Maka seems to be saying that only the KJV was divinely developed, but then pretends he isn't promoting its perfection.

If all other versions are less inspired than the 1611 KJV, then only it is a cadidate for the perfect translation.  And, as we have seen, it has various errors which seem to cast doubt on that option.

Which is it, maka?  Is the KJV perfect and the only truly inspired english Bible, or is it just a good version among others?  If you really clarify your position, you may find it is self-contradictory.
6  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Some possible errors in "purified text theory" on: April 21, 2014, 06:27:25 PM
I understand the problem with some of the manuscripts used in some of the more modern translations. But I also find it amazing how often the NIV or NAS comes out amazingly like the KJV, only in a more forthright language.

Yes, there is significant overlap in essential meanings between the various versions which "purists" like to defend or attack.  And i seem to recall that maka never answered my question about which specific basic doctrine of Christianity is removed or invalidated by modern translations.

If all the "foundational teachings" remain the same, then we have the Word of God in various forms, some of which are somewhat (or considerably) better than others.  Just like multiple translations into english of what some great foreign leader has said -- some aren't going to be worth our study, others will be quite close to the ' intended meanings.

So much for version-bigotry....

Did you see the first post in this topic, maka?  "Purified text theory" is not Scriptural, but rather a man-made concept.  You say predestination regarding Scripture stopped with the 1611 KJV, but you have no actual proof, just conjecture.  Right?   cool
7  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Believers will believe, doubters will doubt and haters will hate. on: April 21, 2014, 06:16:53 PM

maka:  #1. You cannot honestly state you have scripture if you believe only the original manuscripts were given by inspiration of God. There are no original manuscripts.

K_k:  There are original manuscripts, in the Heavenly Kingdom, and possibly on earth but not yet discovered (similar to the finding of the "Dead Sea Scrolls").  In addition, almost the entire NT can be reconstructed using quotes from the earliest church leaders -- so we can have a high level of confidence that we are close to the originals.

#2. You cannot honestly say "the bible" or "all bibles" are given by inspiration of God.  There are over 400 (Christian, Catholic, Cult) Greek, Syrian, Latin, German, English, French, Spanish, etc. bibles which do not match in content, volume or doctrine.

K_k:  All Bibles are given by inspiration of God to the degree that they are faithful to the original manuscripts as best as were available at the time.  No translation will be perfect since each language (especially greek) has many shades of meaning, and connotations, and poetic usage.

There are no changes to basic doctrines in the most common versions.  All the fundamental teachings have been preserved providentially.

#3. You cannot honestly say "the Greek N.T." or "all N.T. Greek texts" are given by inspiration of God.  There are over 24 reconstructed (Christian, Catholic, Cult) Greek N.T. texts
which do not match in content, volume or doctrine.

K_k:  The various greek manuscripts do not change basic doctrines or create new fundamental teachings.  Each greek manuscript is inspired to the degree that it corresponds to the original writings as discerned by the Holy Spirit.

You cannot honestly say that the KJV was based on the only perfectly reliable manuscripts, but rather it was based on the best they had available at that time.  Any other statement is presumption, not fact.
8  Forums / Main Forum / Re: KJV Holy Bible Christians founded the U.S.A. on: April 21, 2014, 06:06:14 PM

Avoiding the errors listed in the topic, "Some errors in the beloved KJV" doesn't make them go away.

Why would you want to post much repetitive information but not want to address the actual issues in current rejection of the KJV?  Just repeating "buy this book" doesn't provide an answer, it just avoids the questions.

Again, i wouldn't expect you to cover 400 of the possible errors, just a few major ones, like the ones i have listed.  Pretty please?
9  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Invitations to forgiveness on: April 21, 2014, 05:58:24 PM

For those who might want to see the Invitations to Forgiveness cards described in the first post above, here is the web address of amazon's picture.  The card is supposedly out of print, but there are still some available -- if i don't beat you to them....    rolleyes
10  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Christ in us Scriptures on: April 13, 2014, 08:39:14 PM

Yes, our perfect Dad sees us with Christ's perfection, since He is beyond (and within) time.  And yet, in our experiential world we still have growing to do.  We learn to trust Him more and more, we hunger to obey Him in His righteousness, we get to be filled progressively full with gratitude for Who He is to us.

He calls us to "abide in Him", as He abides in us.  We are instructed to keep on offering our bodies as living sacrifices, and to "put to death" the immorality which remains.

Romans 8:13
"For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

Colossians 3:5
"Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry."

Not that we can do this in our own strength, but only in His.  Which takes some real learning.  We are perfect in Jesus, and yet, not yet.  But He says we will be, and He should know.
11  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Holy Bibles and Corrupt Bibles on: April 13, 2014, 08:20:57 PM

Thanks for your evaluation, maka.  Now let's take a closer look at some of it.

Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.  Except for one thing -- the Holy Spirit "begets" a new Son of God each time a person receives Christ as their Lord and Savior.

1 John 2:29  Amplified
"If you know (perceive and are sure) that He [Christ] is [absolutely] righteous [conforming to the Fatherís will in purpose, thought, and action], you may also know (be sure) that everyone who does righteously [and is therefore in like manner conformed to the divine will] is born (begotten) of Him [God]."

Other places (such as 1 John 3:9, and 4:7) says that the greek word translated "begotten" shows that all Sons of God are begotten / born of Him.  We must be "born again" and that only comes through a "begetting" by the Holy Spirit.

In addition, the word translated in the KJV as "only-begotten" also means "unique", i believe. And Jesus is the Unique Son of God, eternally begotten, not made first, then begotten, as Believers in Christ are.  So some of the translations you accuse of distortion may not be so far off as you judge them to be.

Similarly, the greek word for the verb "to corrupt", has the additional meaning of "perverting something for profit", i believe.  So your judgment against those Bibles which use that translation of the word may be a bit unfair.

Glad to see you back worc!  Geneva Bible, eh?  I'll take a look.

Maka, the "corruption" problem you cite is not valid as i stated above.  The "missing "infallible proofs"" is also somewhat contrived, since Jesus gave many proofs to many people that He was alive and well after the Resurrection, for 40 days, and to over 500 hundred people who knew Him.  And we can be sure that any proof Jesus gave was infallible, since He is.

It appears you over-step yourself trying to invalidate all translations other than the KJV, which is seen to have errors (see the relevant topic for some of those errors).  I think you may have invested a lot of ego in your pet theories and that makes you invent version inadequacies to support your theories, in their numerous repetitions.

But, then, i've been wrong before -- have you?
12  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Believers will believe, doubters will doubt and haters will hate. on: April 08, 2014, 12:32:36 PM
Why does anyone posting here bother to read or reply to savedbygrace or makahiya (who I think are really the same person).  Just ignore them and maybe he will go away.

First of all, there is the (slight, perhaps) possibility that maka will "see the Light" and repent of his arrogance.

Second of all, there is the (vague) possibility that he is right and the KJV is the perfect Bible.

Third, there is the (more likely) possibility that we will all learn something of value, and dig deeper into the Word.

Other than that, it seems pretty hopeless...   cool
13  Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Eternal torture still dies on: April 08, 2014, 12:46:25 AM

Sorry, for some reason i get a "video currently unavailable" message every time i try to watch it.  Might be a browser problem.  Can you describe what material is in it?

The title looks intriguing:  "Eternal Torment is a Doctrine of Demons".
14  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Some errors in the beloved KJV on: April 08, 2014, 12:39:38 AM

Here is the current list of some of the errors discussed above:


1.  The KJV used the word "Easter" when it should have used the word "Passover" in Acts 12:4.  (All other translations have corrected this error.)

2.  The KJV used the word "kill" when the word "murder" would have been more correct -- for example, in the Commandment prohibiting it.

3.  The Greek word meaning "immersion" was changed to "baptism" in several places in the KJV.

4.  The Greek word meaning "assembly" was consistently changed to a different Greek word meaning "pertaining to the Lord" in the KJV, which then morphed into our "church".  

5.  The Greek word meaning (Holy) "Spirit" was translated as (Holy) "Ghost" 90 times by the KJV translators, but they switched to "Holy Spirit" 7 times where the same Greek word occurred in the NT.  All other versions are consistent in their translation of the word as Spirit.

6.  In Isaiah 45:7, the KJV says that God "creates evil", which is untrue by our current definition of "evil".  Most newer translations translate the word correctly as God "creates calamity / disaster".

7.  Though not really "errors" in the KJV necessarily, it is good to be aware that over 700 english words in the KJV have changed in meaning in the last 400 years.  

[ ]


Since our friend (  kiss ), maka, has continually refused to respond or to provide an explanation of how the KJV can be perfect in spite of them, i may begin a new thread examining them from the point of view of KJV supporters (if i get some more time and inspiration...).
15  Forums / Main Forum / Re: Invitations to forgiveness on: April 08, 2014, 12:29:01 AM

maka quoting: "THE BIBLE contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy.
It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler's map, the pilgrim's staff, the pilot's compass, the soldier's sword, and the Christian's charter. Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened, and the gates of hell disclosed.

CHRIST is its grand subject, our good the design and the glory of God its end.  It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet.  Read it slowly, frequently, and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever.  It involves the highest responsibility, will reward the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

Author Unknown"

It is nice when we can have good agreement on something, maka.
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